M390 vs. S90V?

loonybin

loonybin

Joined
May 18, 1999
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I'm considering the Benchmade 810-1401 Contego with a M390 blade or the Spyderco Manix2 XL in S90V for my next knife purchase; however, I have no experience with S90V. This will not be a safe queen, as I plan on using it when camping, fishing, and hunting.

What is the biggest difference between the two? Edge holding/wear resistance/toughness/etc.?
 
From my personal experience, the wear resistance is close with m390 being a bit tougher. Also geometry has a lot to do with your choice. Being that you are using it for camping and hinting, I'd go with the Contego as it has a thicker blade with more tip. Just my experience and opinion
 
Used both steels in various folders, tough choice really. I'd say the differences might be very difficult to notice. I love S90V though, that is my choice, but not by much. M390 is amazing as well.
 
Steel-wise you can't go wrong with either.

See: Ranking of Steels in Categories based on Edge Retention cutting 5/8" rope
See: Composition Comparison Graph For The Knife Steels Crucible S90V, Bohler-Uddeholm M390

I got both but forced to choose one I'd say Manix2 XL in S90V simply because like you I did not have a knife in that steel. Also, although both are KnifeWorks exclusives, Manix2 S90V is limited to 800 pieces and seems to have fewer left after a third batch coming out. The Contego in M390 is an unlimited run and as long as demand is there this year they'll be produced.

A couple of related threads:

 
I'd go with the Manix for your uses. As far as steels, Rev and others already took the word out of my mouth.
 
M390 has a very high vanadium content that can make it difficult to work with but at right around 60 Rc, it hold a very nice edge.
S90V is very nice too, sometimes it can be even harder to work with and from a production standpoint, often needs to be machined or ground in the soft condition and heat treated after. . .
 
Does anyone know what percentage of the chromium content in M390 is in carbide form? I thought s90v was superior to M390/CTS204p/20CV due to the high vanadium carbides. How do chromium carbides compare to vanadium carbides?

Thanks guys.
 
M390 has more stain resistance and easier to sharpen, From my experience M390/204P are not very tough steel, at least it is noticeable less tough than S30V. Could be the reason of 20%Cr which make it brittle.

I don't have any experience with S90V though.
 
Here's what The Timken Company says:

Both chromium and vanadium increase the hardenability of steel. Important synergistic effects, not yet fully defined, can also occur when combinations are used in place of single elements.

Chromium brings resistance to corrosion and oxidation, high temperature strength and abrasion resistance. Vanadium inhibits grain growth during heat treating while improving toughness of hardened and tempered steels.​

Here's another steel element composition chart comparing 5 steels from 2 groups (S90V & 20CP vs. M390 & CTS-204P & 20CV). You can see individual percentages and the effect of each element.

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/st...20CP, 20CV, M390, S90V&ni=1541,,,,&hrn=1&gm=0
 
neverdie36 said:
From my personal experience, the wear resistance is close with m390 being a bit tougher. Also geometry has a lot to do with your choice. Being that you are using it for camping and hinting, I'd go with the Contego as it has a thicker blade with more tip. Just my experience and opinion
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Yeah, the thin tip on the S'co does make me wonder how it will hold up to harder use camping and hunting. Granted, I have a fixed blade, but I ended up using a Contego to help skin a deer one year.

RamZar said:
Steel-wise you can't go wrong with either.

See: Ranking of Steels in Categories based on Edge Retention cutting 5/8" rope
See: Composition Comparison Graph For The Knife Steels Crucible S90V, Bohler-Uddeholm M390

I got both but forced to choose one I'd say Manix2 XL in S90V simply because like you I did not have a knife in that steel. Also, although both are KnifeWorks exclusives, Manix2 S90V is limited to 800 pieces and seems to have fewer left after a third batch coming out. The Contego in M390 is an unlimited run and as long as demand is there this year they'll be produced.
Click to expand...
That is one thing that is drawing my eye to the Manix2 XL: the limited availability. I have limited funds for knives, but I suppose I could sell the XL as used and still have enough to buy one of the 810-1401 knives. I've also wanted to try the ball bearing lock to see how it compares to the Axis lock. Being a lefty, Spyderco has had very little to offer that is lefty friendly (sorry, just putting a clip on the left side does not make it lefty-friendly, and I don't do lockbacks. I want full ambidextrous), but the ball bearing lock changes that. With Benchmade's price policy changes, I'm more than happy to look elsewhere for quality knives --- if there were somewhere else to look for us southpaws. Unfortunately, there isn't much out there to compete with the Axis. I may end up hating the BB lock or loving it. If I love it, I hope Spyderco will offer more models with it.

The thin tip and lack of a belly does make me wonder about it's usefulness outdoors, though.

Stays Sharp said:
I'd go with the Manix for your uses. As far as steels, Rev and others already took the word out of my mouth.
Click to expand...
Why do you think the Manix is the better knife for outdoors/hunting/camping?

Bradford said:
M390 has a very high vanadium content that can make it difficult to work with but at right around 60 Rc, it hold a very nice edge.
S90V is very nice too, sometimes it can be even harder to work with and from a production standpoint, often needs to be machined or ground in the soft condition and heat treated after. . .
Click to expand...
I already have a Benchmade 581 and 586 in M390, so I'm familiar with their heat treat and sharpening M390. Fortunately, I only have to worry about sharpening it as opposed to working with it more extensively like you do. Which reminds me: I need to email you about making a Santoku for my wife out of M390...


Basically what I'm hearing is that S90V vs. M390 is six of one, half a dozen of the other and pick the knife design you like best?
 
I would say s90v has the 'edge' in edge retention/wear resistance, but m390 wins out on some other qualities: ease of sharpening (in the field, this could be a consideration), corrosion resistance...I guess I can't really comment on toughness as I haven't broke or chipped either. Both are great steels, take a nice edge, and hold a good edge for a long time.

I just got that same Spyderco Manix XL s90v a couple of days ago. My first Manix. I was pleasantly surprised. It FITS my hand. Nothing not to like. It might be a bit thin on the tip for heavy use, but as long as you don't pry with it, I would think it should be fine. I usually carry a heavier fixed blade and then a smaller slicer, like a PM2, for the pocket when backpacking.

Something also to consider would be ease of cleaning the knife, particularly the pivot and locking mechanism. Especially if you are cleaning fish or dealing with raw meat. But I don't know which knife I'd recommend on that point. I don't have a Contego to put up against my new Manix for comparison. Maybe someone else could chime in on that point.
 
Manix XL would be my choice, the CBBL is different, but a great option for us lefties, I had a manix that I enjoyed, but I put it up in a give away thread.
 
drichardson67 said:
Something also to consider would be ease of cleaning the knife, particularly the pivot and locking mechanism. Especially if you are cleaning fish or dealing with raw meat. But I don't know which knife I'd recommend on that point. I don't have a Contego to put up against my new Manix for comparison. Maybe someone else could chime in on that point.
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All my knives are Axis locks, so I'm familiar with dis/reassembly for cleaning. It isn't hard once you know the tricks, but it isn't easy, either. How easy is it to dis/reassemble the CBBL?

Skimo said:
Manix XL would be my choice, the CBBL is different, but a great option for us lefties, I had a manix that I enjoyed, but I put it up in a give away thread.
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Yeah, I missed that one by about 10 minutes! Since you use an Edge Pro, how does the leaf blade shape affect how you sharpen the knife compared to a knife with a more parrallel spine?
 
I don't think you could go wrong with either one. Get the one that feels the best in your hand.
 
loonybin said:
All my knives are Axis locks, so I'm familiar with dis/reassembly for cleaning. It isn't hard once you know the tricks, but it isn't easy, either. How easy is it to dis/reassemble the CBBL?


Yeah, I missed that one by about 10 minutes! Since you use an Edge Pro, how does the leaf blade shape affect how you sharpen the knife compared to a knife with a more parrallel spine?
Click to expand...

Takedown wasn't bad as I recall, sharpens up just fine, I actually prefer FFG for sharpening and the leaf shape doesn't matter for sharpening.
 
S90V seems a bit 'toothier' to me, maybe because the carbides are larger? M390 seems to take a smoother and more polished edge. Both have been fantastic performers as used by Spyderco. I have an S90V Para2 and an M390 Para 2 and both are great edge holders.
 
elkins45 said:
S90V seems a bit 'toothier' to me, maybe because the carbides are larger? M390 seems to take a smoother and more polished edge. Both have been fantastic performers as used by Spyderco. I have an S90V Para2 and an M390 Para 2 and both are great edge holders.
Click to expand...

Yes, I found this too. When I sharpened S90V it seemed to perform better with a toothier (300-400 grit) edge than M390 at the same grit. But when both are taken up to 1000 grit and higher, M390 seems to perform much better and holds it's edge for a really long time, while S90V is still sharp, it's not as razor sharp due to the carbide overload. I guess I am not too much of a risk taker when reprofiling, I tend to stick with a 40 degree edge, sometimes 50 depending on what knife it is.
 
Within BKC, comparing M390 vs. S90V researched data also backs up my personal experience with opinions of Rev and elkins.

Perhaps B-U's 3rd generation micro clean powder may be finer grain allowing M390 to be easier to sharpen. S90V has more carbon and more than double in Vanadium content. AS all you steel aficionados knows Vanadium carbide is small and very hard. I found wear resistance of S90V seems to have slight upper hand, even it is a little bit softer than M390 within Benchmade HT.

One thing against S90V is it tilts toward M4, meaning that it seems to tarnish a slight bit more than M390. (Mind you, it turns dark faster. IMO, it can't beat 20% of chromium's corrosion resistance in M390)

Unfortunately, BKC hasn't released S110V blade yet. I am really love to see it. I can only indirectly compare the following as of today.

Spyderco: VG10, S30V, S110V, 3V, CPM-M4, ZDP-189
Benchmade: 154cm, D2, CPM-M4, S30V, S90V, M390
 
From my unscientific tests and observations from using an m390 military and an s90V military , the S90V has better edge retention. I like S90V as it cuts like a demon with a course edge.
 
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