Machete vs Hatchet/ Small Axe

M

mlm2588

Joined
Jun 5, 2012
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15
Hi all,
I'm going to apologize in advance because I know this is a controversial topic that has had a lot of coverage on the web but for what ever reason I still haven't found the answers I'm looking for. I think I'm looking for someone to tell me they have personally had great experience with one or the other in the Eastern Woodlands. So here it goes...

My Dad and I are planning a backpacking trip into the Allegheny Forest. He plans on bringing his machete he acquired in Panama when in the service. He swears his life on its versatility. He will probably bring one of his many folders for small tasks and I just bought him a BK16 for Father's Day that I hope he puts a beating on.

For me I plan on bringing my BK2 (I'm a huge Kabar/ Becker fan), a small Mora, a folding saw... What I need all your advise/ opinion on is whether I bring a Kukri or a small Axe/ Hatchet.

I am inspired by my Dads faith in his machete but definitely have my doubts as to how it will fair on hardwood since it is a standard machete.

I already own a Rockforge Hatchet (the one you can get at Lowes) but am unimpressed when I have played around with it trying to split wood. So I am either inexperienced or I need I more proven axe like a Wetterlings. For smaller diameter wood I always end up batoning my BK2. And I would rather save the edge for emergencies should they occur.

I am trying hard to stick with the hatchet to add variety between my Dads setup and my own. A hatchet is supposed to fair well on hardwoods and it would allow for us to pound in tarp steaks. I am also considering going to a Kukri machete which is supposed to be just as dependable on hardwoods as a hatchet.

I am debating on the Cold Steel Kukri, the Kabar Kukri, a Kabar Cutlass or a small Wetterlings? I am looking for personal experience with any of them in the Eastern Woodlands that will push me torwards a final decision.
 
I can't speak to experience with the East woods, but if you can swing it, I'd personally prefer a small axe. If you're not happy with the RForge, go for the Wetterlings. Or an Estwing.

Machetes are certainly versatile, I'd just rather have an axe. Khukris are useful also, it's just hard to beat an axe. Think regionally, and what the classic edged tools for the area are.

Interested to see how the trip goes and what the outcome is.
 
Ill definitely keep all who are interested up to date I'm going to probably start a photo heavy thread on the trip with pictures of shelters, blade uses, fire making, gear, the whole 9 yards. I love seeing pictures of stuff like that and I know there are tons more like me.
 
For upland camping (I usually go Adirondacks, but imagine the terrain and flora are mighty similar to Allegheny) my Fiskars hatchet has become somewhat legendary among my crew. I have a 1st generation, the newer ones are supposed to have better steel. I keep wanting to buy one, but my old one works so well even I cannot justify the purchase.:)

Most of my buddies would rather grunt it out with a pruning saw, but after seeing how fast I can go through American beech and other downed timber, no one minds taking a turn with it. With a good edge and a fairly thin grind, a hatchet delivers exponentially more chopping power than any machete pattern of comparable weight. This is important, if the back bevel is somewhat thick the hatchet becomes essentially useless (might be what's wrong with your Rockforge, you could always thin the backbevel at the shoulder, convex the edge, and it'll work a lot better). The Fiskars chops great right out of the box, after convexing it, I cannot say enough good things about its performance to weight. That said, my 14" Tramontina bolo is a real nice chopper too - up to about a 2.5 to 3" branch or if dealing with softer wood. After that, if its seasoned hardwood you're better off with a saw or hatchet. If I'm camping off the beaten path I'll take my machete. If I'm going somewhere popular that's going to be denuded of firewood, I like the hatchet so I can make use of the larger logs that other didn't want to mess with.
 
If you are backpacking, I'd skip the axe due to weight unless you plan on building a cabin. :) Some folks like hatchets and some like a good machete. Either works just fine for small stuff. I prefer a saw for larger dead material used for the fire. Between the two of you, you'll do fine.
 
mlm2588 said:
I already own a Rockforge Hatchet (the one you can get at Lowes) but am unimpressed when I have played around with it trying to split wood.
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I use a hatchet for better chopping than a big camp knife can provide, but my big camp knife can split more wood than my hatchet, because of batoning.
mlm2588 said:
For me I plan on bringing my BK2 (I'm a huge Kabar/ Becker fan), a small Mora, a folding saw...
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And that BK2 will chop the onions for your camp fire chili too! And you don't need to carry 3 knives and a saw....in your situation, specially since your dad is taking his time tested machete....a hatchet or small tomahawk would be fun. You could bust his balls if your tools out perform his!
 
AKC said:
Think regionally, and what the classic edged tools for the area are.
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I would say the same. Prepare yourself for the different turf.
If you will chop heavy wood (in a park?) i would say a small axe or a Khukuri.
The trail looks like it doesn't have many low growing shrubs to clean off (should machete comes in handy).

Pack a machete with a small knife for utility or if the weight allows get a small axe.
Have fun!
 
For fire wood /backpacking your best bet is a bow saw /bushsaw and hatchet .Sounds like you've got enough knives.
Don't forget you're carrying it.
The reason I go for a bush saw is light weight.
Also I 've been camping in places where it looks like a rhino has broken all the small trees down for firewood leaving an ugly scar in an otherwise wild and beautiful place.
With the saw it will look like its been pruned and hopefully able to grow back again for next time.
cheers and have a safe trip.
 
"Nessmuk" recommended a small axe, a camp knife and a smaller knife called a patch knife, about 2 inch blade or so for small chores. He was a small guy at about 125 pounds and he spent most of his time in a canoe so I would discount the axe thing a bit. I have done really well with a 4" bushcraft and a multi tool or a short heavy machete and a smaller SAK. I baton the stout bushcraft or machete and use the saw on the tool to notch. I do not cut anything but dead and down wood for burning and only limited saplings for shelter. Believe me, it is better on the Addie to do that. A good made wire saw works well and weighs nothing. I am all about conserving energy when I am camping and traveling. That includes what and how much I carry.


The very reason meako pointed out is the reason I limit what I do in the woods. There are ways to do this with out looking like someone mowed it down. The Addie gets a lot of hikers and it is better to go with less than more.
 
Wow I posted this topic on another forum and between the two I have received amazing responses...

Thanks for all of your advise

I really appreciate you post HeavyHanded about the edge. I will research that a bit and see if I can't make what I have work better.

In the other forum I posted in someone made the comment that experience trumps the gear all the time... Perhaps I'm looking for a good reason to get both and give them a try haha

I may already have the tools I need. I already have a folding saw for cutting wood and between my BK2 and my Dads machete we should beable to baton through quite a bit. Makes me wonder if perhaps a bigger Becker would be beneficial :D

I love blades my fiance would kill me though if she started seeing boxes at the door... It would be nice to add a nice Wetterlings axe, khukri, and a new Becker to my collection. :)

I have even thought extensively about replacing my Mora with a more custom piece either one that I have made myself or I've looked at the BHK Woodsman or Woodsman Pro. Just an off topic side note.
 
FWIW, the kukri like objects you've mentioned aren't actual khukuri. They're closer to machetes. So if you're unsure about how well a machete will perform, those won't necessary really provide a step up in performance.

If you like Beckers, BK4 and BK9 are great performers, although it's quite hard to beat a Tramontina machete for chopping power.

The other thing I'd suggest you look into would be an actual khukuri from Himalayan Imports. They're quite affordable, gorgeous, and all-around excellent blades.
 
mlm2588 said:
I really appreciate you post HeavyHanded about the edge. I will research that a bit and see if I can't make what I have work better.
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Here's some good advice.

Axes, as they come from the factories, have a decided bevel near the edge and a new axe is of no account until it has been well ground. The proper way to grind an axe is to statrt well back on the blade and grind it out to the edge, or until all of the bevel has disappeared then it should be well whetted with a small smooth stone. The thickest part of the blade should be not exactly in the center, but somewhat towards the outside corner, that is, the corner that is farthest from the axeman when the tool is in use. An axe so shaped will spring the chip nicely and will not bind in the wood.

For keeping the axe sharp when in the woods, I carry a small flat, mill file of six or eight inches in length and a small axe stone. A carborundum stone with coarse and fine sides is best for the purpose.
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E. Kreps, 1910
 
Welcome to my neck of the woods! :cool:

I've spent my entire life in the eastern woodlands and I've learned that both a machete and hatchet work well in this environment. The tool choice really comes down to what kind of wood you will be processing.

Machete/Large knife: The machete is great for chopping up small debris and deadwood which is abundant in the eastern woodlands. To break larger logs you can simply beaver chew around the the log and snap it with a kick. In this environment though you want to go with a 1/8 inch thick machete. It will baton well, and will be able to pack more of a punch when swung into hardwoods. You should avoid trying to chop through brush with your machete and instead use a walking stick to push back trees, briars, and such. Trust me if you decide to chop through a briar patch all you'll get is a bunch of thorns swinging at you in very odd places...:eek: Most of the time one of these will be paired up with a folding saw so to negate it's terrible crosscutting abilities.

Axe/Hatchet: An axe is great when you want to process larger logs or deadwood. A great one tool option, a skilled axe user can process wood very quickly and efficiently with minimal effort. The hammer poll can also be used to drive in stakes, crack nuts, etc... I suggest a Fiskars X7 Hatchet or a Wetterlings. If you know what your doing an axe can also function as a large knife and can be used for kitchen prep, woodworking, etc...

In all honesty I have found that in the eastern woodlands very little tools are needed for wood processing. In my experience batoning is only useful when processing firewood at home. In the woods I usually just keep feeding larger logs in as they burn, and break off most of my firewood using leverage. In my opinion a BK2 and a folding saw should be able to do just about anything you need done.

P.S. Broe I like your system, mines pretty much the same. I personally find that Nessmuks style of carry doesn't really fit many modern outdoorsman. I think that the axe is pretty good for carry, but the skinning knife isn't really needed unless you plan on processing game while on the trail.

P.S.S. I'd like to thank mlm2588 for starting this thread. Currently I am in the market for a new woods tool and am also stuck between a machete or axe. I like them both for different reasons but due to a lack of funds am not able to purchase both. :(

-MC
 
A machete will work great in the Northern regions so long as you pick an appropriate pattern. Machetes, when swung properly with either a pinch or handshake grip will send chips flying in a similar manner to an axe--that is to say that the two cuts do not need to meet each other in a V, but if spaced just right the shock of the second blow pops a chip free from the cut, leaving a trapezoidal incision. Most of the time in the woods you'll find that you need to clear or trim rather than fell or split. A machete is an all-around tool as compared to an axe, which excels in the felling/splitting department. When tackling brambles and other light or springy targets, tip velocity is the name of the game, as is sharpness. Keep your machete sharp and learn good technique and it'll do wonderfully for you in a surprisingly wide range of circumstances.
 
A quality Machete such as an Ontario or Condor or similar is important. The heat treat is VERY critical IMHO in a machete, especially because of the thin/er blade. Look closely at the following pic. Follow the spine of the machete & see how much the tip is bent to the left. It is by the handle of the Boomslang lying on the table. I know this looks bad, but because it has an excellent heat treat, it went back to perfectly straight after it was batoned all the way through that hard piece of black walnut with wicked grain twist.

100_1364.jpg
 
All of my hiking/backpacking/camping has been on or near the Blue Ridge Mountains. I really love a big chopper and enjoy using a well balanced machete but I never stay overnight without a good hatchet. There are many hatchets that are well made and my favorites are the older American made ones or the current swiss models. If you are patient you can pick up a nice older one at a local flea market for less than $20 or try a Wetterlings SAW 13 Wildlife Axe. If I could only have one hatchet it would be my Gransfors Bruks Wildlife Hatchet.
 
You guys are going tool heavy for backpacking. (NOTHING wrong with THAT!:thumbup:) Either an axe or machete will do you TONS of good, but unless your just wanting to use it for the fun of it;) you wont need...something, between the two of you. Remember you have to carry it all on your back!.

If you plan on shelter building or other types of craft work I would prefer the machete. If most of what you plan on doing is lots of fire prep every night a hatchet, saw, and your Mora will be MORE than enough.

Prep with an axe can be a little awkward till you get the hang of it. This technique works very well for me, and feels like MUCH less work than batoning YMMV.

On another note hoe you guys have a safe and fun trip!!!! Make sure to post that pic heavy thread.:thumbup::)



[video=youtube;Pkq1TWXMRCY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkq1TWXMRCY&feature=plcp[/video]
 
Runsalone, that is a freaking AWESOME video. I like how you used the axe in a variety of ways when prepping the fire. What kind of puukko is that by the way? One trick that I've found that works for me is to pull the firesteel towards me while keeping the striker stationary. I've noticed that this helps concentrate the sparks in the area that I want them, but then again I usually just let my pyromaniac friend take care of the fire...

-MC
 
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