Making Bali Handles???

R

Rylorien

Joined
Oct 7, 2000
Messages
26
Allright, the burning question of the hour, is it possible to make bali handles with say aluminum without using a die to cast them, say by filing or grinding??? And then drilling for skeletonized? Or can you only use a die to cast something like that. Any ideas or experiments? Thanks
Dennis

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Is that all you monks ever think about? Sects! Sects! Sects!
 

To do it right and w/some degree of precision you need to use a milling machine. Thats assuming you intend to create them like PC/BM (ie each handle being more or less a single piece). The traditional Filipino balis are built differently. Its a very easy job w/a milling machine especially on alumnium or brass.
Die casting or EDM would only be economically feasible if you were doing lots of parts like say over a hundred pairs.
Filing or grinding would take lots of time even on alumnium and it probably wouldn't come out quite right. Give it a try though.

If your really desperate to do this you can always convert a cheap drill press to do some milling work although I wouldn't necessarially recomend it.
 
So where do you pick up a milling machine and how much should you pay for it??? I mean I checked Ebay and I see them going from anywhere between 200 bucks and 10000 dollars, which BTW is way to much money for a drill press I mean come on.

Dennis

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Is that all you monks ever think about? Sects! Sects! Sects!
 
If you need more info you might want to hunt down ChuckG, he is an advocate of spreading Aluminum as a bali handle material and is himself making custom solid bali handles.

luckily for me my school's lab has one =) unluckily for me my teacher thinks I am a freak and I can never catch him in a non busy time to teach me
frown.gif


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<A HREF="http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~soo/balisong/balisong.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~soo/balisong/balisong.html
</A> If you play with love you will be heartbroken; if you play with knives you will [bleed]


 
A 3-axis milling machine is going to be pretty much necessary for solid handles. And when you say milling machine, get your wallet out. Even used, we're talking $5000 and up, way up, oh, that that's without the 3-phase electrical service. Plus, it weights in at upwards of 10,000lbs. Heck, just the vice that holds the work often ways several hundred pounds. Oh, and don't expect to turn out a decent balisong handle on your first try. Profesional machinests apprentice for years to learn to run on of these things.

The balisong handle has Benchmade has done them in the past is a particularly challenging piece to mill out since it tapers in two opposed dimensions at the same time and two of the edged are rounded. A friend of mine who is a master machinest looked at the handles on one of my BMs and said, "Wow, that would be a challenging piece to make."

Fortuantely, Aluminum and brass are both pretty easy to work and balisong handles are pretty small parts. You can get some really cool little table-top milling machines for less than two thousand dollars. They weigh only a couple hundred pounds, plug into 120V power, and while you're gonna need some training and practice, they're not too hard to learn. Even so, a complex handle such as even a Benchmade 42, will take some practice to make. This one would be perfect for balisong handles in aluminum and brass.

Your other option would be to make 'em Filipino-style. Start with bent sheetmetal for the liners and then add bolsters and inserts of your own choosing.


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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com

[This message has been edited by Gollnick (edited 10-18-2000).]
 
Chuck can you elaborate on those phillipino style handles with the sheetmetal?

Dennis

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Is that all you monks ever think about? Sects! Sects! Sects!
 
Also called sandwich liners, I'll get a couple scans but here is a description: the main channel of the balisong handles is just sheet metal (not the sheet metal we know but a different metal just flattened out and bent) that is bent in the shape of a U or the channel for the blade to go into. From there inserts and other pieces of metal are attached onto the sides of the metal. It might be easier to see once I get some pics up.

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Cameron

011.gif
"It takes a killer...to stop a killer"
uriel.gif

A few of my balisongs
My Photopoint album
 
Can it be Aluminum? Or does it have to be something harder? I ask because I have a ton of old aluminum signs I got from the dump.
 
View


You can see the back of the liner here, which is also the back of the handle, the inserts are placed along the sides of the handle as are the bolsters. Here is a pic of the 'butt' of the handle (sorry Chuck, is it the punyo or the punyal??):
View


Hope this helps, and I do think that aluminum would work.

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Cameron

011.gif
"It takes a killer...to stop a killer"
uriel.gif

A few of my balisongs
My Photopoint album
 
Here, to help illustrate the point further, I've made a crude drawing. It should get the point across.

bali.jpg


I've decided to try making new handles for my Jag like this. I have sheets of Aluminum and Tin and also a ton of seasoned hardwood lying around. All I need now is some brass for the bolsters.

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Disco Stu
A Finger Saved, is a Finger Earned
 
I've been using a milling machine, at the engineers machine shop at my school, to try and make a set of handles for a BM 239 blade. Heed their warnings...it is not easy! The hardest part is the dual taper. If you're going to do it, I think the best way is to set up a shim under the metal to prop it up in order to get the correct angle. Last week I was working on it and didn't quite get the shim right. So that's this weeks project; correcting last weeks mistake. Just remember, if you cut too little, you can take more metal off. If you cut too deep, you can't put it back on. I would suggest seeing if you could find someone else that has a mill or a place you could go to use one. Purchasing one new could be even more than $10,000. Good luck.
Steve
 
Well, it only took me an hour just now to make a liner for a Filipino-style bali. It's a little thick and need some file/sand work but I'm gettin' there. I can't believe I'm actually doing it. Normally I dream big and then decide it's too much work.
smile.gif


It's made of Aluminum but I also have a very thin sheet of Stainless Steel that I might try. Gonna be a bitch to work though.

Anyway, what does everyone think about Copper bolsters instead of brass? I ask because I happen to have a large bar of copper in my shop. I'm thinking that with the right stain on the wood inserts it could look fairly good.
 
I'm glad this topic came up. Its very interesting to see what can come about on a limited budget. If the result product is not too hard to produce, I might try my hand at it if I have some free time. Keep those posts coming.
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Dave
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My collection
 
This sounds interesting! Question...What would be a good variety of steel to use in making handles that strong and resistant to damage from dropping, etc?

Regards,

Sabo 29

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"Catch you on the flip side"!
 
Stu, that is a great diagram. May I borrow that for my website? It really illustrates the classic FHM perfectly. The liner of most FHMs is brass. The early ones were made from shell casing. But, I've seen them use Aluminum, copper, and steel. The bending is not done with a break since, first of all, breaks cost money and the Filipino makers are typically pretty poor (especially historically), and second, you can't form such a shape on a break anyway. They form the liner by pounding the metal over a form. Sometimes, you can still see the hammer marks. The bolsters are optional. They make the knife a lot stronger. I've seen them in all sorts of materials, so don't hesitate to use anthing. The inserts are traditionally held on with copper or aluminum pins. But, you could use a modern glue too.



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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
 
Sure Chuck, please take it. Use it. That's why I made it.
smile.gif


The way I formed my liner was to go outside and find something the exact same size as the inside of my Jag handle. I happened to find a file that was near perfect. Then I just beat the Aluminum around the file and I think it came out pretty good.
 
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