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Manix 2 Photographs

Discussion in 'Spyderco' started by The Deacon, Mar 31, 2009.

  1. STR

    STR Knifemaker/Moderator Moderator

    Aug 27, 2004
    I like the knife. Looks like a real winner all around except for the plastic looking gripper for the lock which I don't find to be on the same level for quality look as the G10 or Micarta gives. Plastic IMO, cheapens and just takes away or dilutes the appeal for me. Otherwise a grand slam home run.

    STR
     
  2. THG

    THG

    May 18, 2008
    Agreed.
     
  3. STR

    STR Knifemaker/Moderator Moderator

    Aug 27, 2004
    On the surface it sounds amusing doesn't it Deacon? There seems to be a common viewpoint that Micarta and other laminate type materials exhibit quality over others. At least that seems to be the case for me when I get orders, although I have had customers say things like, 'could you use a 'quality material for the handle like' Micarta over G10? Yet the G10 costs more than Micarta by about four times plus or minus for the same size sheet. Just looking in collector value books shows that some handle scale materials do not bring the kind of values a higher quality one does and most of that is really subjective I think based on popular opinion or at least that seems to be the case. Delrin seems to have as much going for it as many other materials but its bottom of the barrel for cheap in the eyes of many with FRN a close second. Even though both offer a lot really when you stop to think about it even over Micarta and G10 they are not as favored. I still see guys that think any Glock or other Glock like pistol is cheap and that its not a 'real firearm' unless its metal. Go figure. I can't put my finger on the real issue as to why that plastic looking handle bothers me but the G10 doesn't. I just see it as beneath the overall feel of that particular folder where the textured G10 has more of a quality feel to it akin to a checkered wood in appeal. At least for me anyways.

    STR
     
  4. Artfully Martial

    Artfully Martial

    Jun 8, 2005
    I already addressed this fact with my assertion on the potential superiority of the material over an alternative in the particular sense of manufacturing.

    It took me awhile to construct what your potential counterargument might be, as exampled by your counterpoint. I think this is what you had in mind (although I may be wrong):

    While the hand-sewn interior might be preferable in a street driven Ferrari, in the race Ferrari, aesthetics gave way to function. So, as I have you, you don't claim the aesthetic is irrelevant, just that it's outweighed by the requisite function of the part.

    I think that's a good argument, generally speaking.

    Of course, in arguments by analogy, it needs to be shown that the point of concern is relevantly similar to the subject of the analogy.

    Therefore, I would need to be shown that the plastic outweighs its metal or G10 alternatives adequately to recommend it on top of them, given plastic's admitted aesthetic deficiency (which has been inferred from your argument--please correct me if I haven't articulated your point adequately).

    I don't believe that plastic does have the superior function. Benchmade, as far as I can tell, hasn't used any plastic components to its highly successful axis-lock design, and Spyderco thought a metal BB was preferable to a plastic one.

    I haven't been able to see the BB-cage design in person yet to evaluate it. Prima facie, I don't really see any advantage to putting a BB in the middle of a plastic cage--why can't the cage just do all the work, like the axis lock's barbell?

    But again, I need to see it in person before I make that judgment.

    I see how your point might be intuitive at first, however this distinction makes good sense. When we do aesthetics, we're concerned with the senses and not with function. Sight, taste, feel and so on. That is to say--if you can give me a "cheap plastic" part that feels and looks convincingly like, say, titanium, while giving comparable or better performance, then I'm all for it.

    The fact is simply that this plastic cage, by looks at least (haven't felt it yet), does not replicate the superior aesthetic of its competitors, nor does it improve upon it.

    But G10 and CF do obtain this aesthetic. This is why they're preferred, from the purely aesthetic standpoint.

    There is a very close relationship between the aesthetic and functional, which can be read in my article A Theory of Art, and hopefully relatively soon to be book.

    Anyway, logic aside, it's my preference that it be a different material, and I can afford to buy what I want.

    Ultimately though, I like this knife, and the plastic is just a tiny preference. Sorry for the long-winded response, I just enjoy a little philosophizing in between knife discussion.
     
  5. rwasham

    rwasham

    647
    Mar 27, 2009
    Looks pretty nice hope the price stays down
     
  6. yoda4561

    yoda4561

    May 28, 1999
    It's cuz it's clear :) Our minds have grown to associate this with "cheap, brittle, lacking in durability" since that's what most of the clear plastics we've used tend to be. Our perception of "quality" as it relates to plastics and other synthetic materials seems very tied into color and texture. Make that little "plastic" detent out of a matte finished solid black material with no casting marks, and suddenly it "feels" high class and durable, regardless of it's actual performance.
     
  7. sherlockbonez

    sherlockbonez

    Apr 28, 2002
    I edc my mini for 3 years now. Here's my 2 cent on it. I work in a chocolate factory and my knife gets dirty from milk powder, melted chocolate etc. I cut palletzing wrap, cardboard and various straps (metal and plastic). My inital though is that the lock looks like a winner since it'll be easier to clean out. The choil is a PITA tho. I understand the need for it in a lockback, but for a axis lock, I would like to see the cutting edge run full length for the blade. I find the choil gets stuck onto different material on long cuts. IE, I was opening up a mixer this AM. The box is about 4.5 ft long wrapped in cardboard and plastic. This combo binds like heck and took good 6-7 strokes to good through.

    Looking forward to seeing this come out, lets not make us wait 5 years!!
     
  8. Mitchell Knives

    Mitchell Knives Knifemaker Moderator

    May 21, 2000
    I don't like it. Dislike the grind and the plastic lock release. Not sure why Spyderco decided to go with 154CM. The original was better.
     
  9. Jake Bauer

    Jake Bauer

    Sep 19, 2007
    154cm will keep costs down which is the biggest reason it was originally discontinued.... poor sales. And as far as I know the lock release isnt fully plastic, the cover over the metal lock is.
     
  10. gunmike1

    gunmike1

    Dec 9, 2005
    I haven't heard any complaints about the P'kal's lock release, which as far as I know is the same as for the new Manix. My Dad handled the P'kal, and he is very critical of knives, and he said he really liked the knife and how easy it was to work the lock with his older hands. Never once did he mention cheap plastic. The key in my mind is the fact that this knife is stronger than the original using thinner blade stock and an ultra smooth and strong ball bearing lock. The grind will be changed on sprint runs, and Tom Krein can regrind it to whatever you want. 154CM is in the same league as S30V, and at a $130 MSRP it is hard to complain about this knife. The street price should be very affordable, and the thinner stock with a hollow grind should slice well. Plus, a hollow grind will make it easier for me to rebevel it. If I don't like the hollow grind I will get a regrind, but my main decision will be whether to get the initial version or wait for the FRN.

    Mike
     
  11. Jake Bauer

    Jake Bauer

    Sep 19, 2007
    truth!!!!
     
  12. Nikokurausu

    Nikokurausu

    539
    Jun 19, 2006
    Here's a cool YouTube vid I found of the Manix 2 prototype that I haven't seen posted here.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgYzQtCJmfA

    Aside from the grind and the blade steel, my main gripe with the Manix 2 was the reduction in size. After seeing the vid and being told by Sal that there's a bigger version coming, I'm no longer concerned about the size. I still dislike the grind and steel choice but it seems as though a Sprint run will take care of those qualms.

    My issues with it aside, the knife looks really well done. I actually like all of the jimping and love the fact that's it's coming with a Ball Bearing lock. My preference would be a black clip but that's not a deal breaker. I like it's location for deep carry.

    Looking forward to handling one and towards a Sprint version.
     
  13. amen74

    amen74

    Mar 10, 2008
    I agree with gunmike1. For an MSRP of $130, the M2 is a great deal.
     
  14. stabman

    stabman Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 17, 2007
    That's the only part of the P'kal I DO gripe about.
    The rest of the knife feels so solid and high quality. That's why I'll be replacing the plastic cage with a titanium one when I get the time/money/tools.
     
  15. gunmike1

    gunmike1

    Dec 9, 2005
    Well, there's the first gripe I've heard about it. I'm more worried about the hardened ball bearing, and as long the plastic cage doesn't break on me I think I'll be happy with it. I'll have to wait until I actually use it to see what I think of it, but I doubt I personally will not like it. Everyone is different though.

    Mike
     
  16. riz_aaroni

    riz_aaroni Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 7, 2007
    Haven't checked this thread in a long time and to see the MSRP being $130, I think I now know what knife I am buying next!

    EDIT:

    Just saw we need to wait 3-4 months lol. What a wait this is going to be!
     
  17. npueppke

    npueppke

    143
    Jul 17, 2008
    I have to say that I like this knife a lot. There are a lot of Spydercos out there now that I'm itching to get my hands on, but as a newer knife collecter with a limited budget I think that I'm going to wait until the new Manix comes out and then see how it goes. I agree with the people who are waiting for the larger version, but this one seems like it'll be great for EDC. I think that it'll be large enough to still provide an uncramped full-fingered grip on the knife, which is often an issue for me.
     
  18. duller

    duller

    242
    Apr 14, 2007
    What is the value of the full flat grind vs the other types?

    Is it strictly that the final cutting edge can be a shallower angle than with the other grinds?

    Maybe this question should be in a separate post? Which section?
     
  19. npueppke

    npueppke

    143
    Jul 17, 2008
    No, a full flat grind will have a shallower angle than a flat grind that doesn't extend all the way back to the spine, but a hollow grind will actually have a much shallower angle than a full flat grind (unless it is a very wide blade). The disadvantage of a hollow grind is that it tends to "get stuck" on whatever it is you're cutting through if you make a deep cut because all of a sudden the angle has changed to a very obtuse angle. This is why a flat grind is better for things like food prep, where a hollow grind will act too much like a wedge and make cutting difficult. Hollow ground blades are also potentially more fragile, depending on the geometry, etc, because they tend to be thinner near the edge.
     
  20. duller

    duller

    242
    Apr 14, 2007
    Thanks, npueppke
     

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