Masonic Swords?

[SeismicCWave]

Good evening good gentlemen,

I have two swords I want to show you. One is a left over from my father when he passed away 20 years ago. The other my friend just gave me for Christmas. He got it from a local pawn shop. Neither looked to be anything spectacular nor collectible but I just keep them in my stash.

From what I can find the one from my father has a name "Spencer & Co. London" on it so I can find a bit more information on it. It matches a Google image of a Masonic Sword.

The one from my friend has no markings except for the "K." and "P." initials on the guard. I remembered vaguely I have seen something like that on this forum. Then again I am old and my memory is playing tricks so who knows.

Anyhow I am adding a few pictures and maybe some of you have a story they can share with me. I am not looking for "collectibility" nor "value" since I am not looking to sell them. Just some stories to let me "forget" sooner than later.

Thanks in advance.

 

[abbydaddy]

They look like fun things to have. That's all I have the swords I have for.

I'm not much use for specific info on swords, but I do think they are fun. And those look like a couple of fun swords.

 

[SeismicCWave]

They look like fun things to have. That's all I have the swords I have for.

I'm not much use for specific info on swords, but I do think they are fun. And those look like a couple of fun swords.

Yes, they are. All my knives and swords are just fun toys. The one from Spencer and Co. has a smaller handle and it is not as comfortable. The one my friend gave me today is a lot more comfortable and therefore more "fun".

 

[crocogator106]

They could both be Masonic swords. The hilts are shaped like a Templar Cross but nothing from what I can see is definitive.

 

[SeismicCWave]

They could both be Masonic swords. The hilts are shaped like a Templar Cross but nothing from what I can see is definitive.

The Spencer & Co. one is pretty much definitely a Masonic sword. I don't know much about Freemasons and what the sword is for or about. The one I received today does look like something to do with the templar cross. There are some etching on the guard that shows a knight riding a horse. Plus the pommel with the armored looking head. So it has something to do with the Knights Templar. However I have not done more Google concerning the relationship of the Knights Templar and the Freemasons. That should be an interesting bit of history on my to find list.

 

[horseclover]

All modern Knights Templars are freemasons first. There are many dozens of fraternal groups that have worn very similar swords. In this case, the KP is for the Knights of Pythias. A match for this sword appears in the latest fraternal sword book penned by Hamilton, Kaplan and Marino.

Cheers

GC

 

[SeismicCWave]

All modern Knights Templars are freemasons first. There are many dozens of fraternal groups that have worn very similar swords. In this case, the KP is for the Knights of Pythias. A match for this sword appears in the latest fraternal sword book penned by Hamilton, Kaplan and Marino.

Cheers

GC

Thanks, I best read up on the modern Knights Templars. I didn't realize they still exist. So one becomes a Freemason then within the Freemasons are fraternities of Knights Templars. No wonder why I am not well versed in that. I thought the Knights Templar were all dead after getting wiped out by some king of France. Shows you how much I know.

 

[horseclover]

The Templars were not all killed off but often absorbed into other groups. In England, as example, few were killed. A couple were fined or imprisoned but most became part of the Hospilliters. Modern Freemasonry in England started as a rather elite group, so you have others such as the Odd Fellows becoming an any man fraternity. Modern Knights templars first become Master Masons.

A neat site for reading is Phoenix Masonry
http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/

The Knights of Pythias were a group borne out of the American Civil War.
http://www.pythias.org/

I would list your sword as early, as the Uniform Rank and Patriarch Militant swords of the Pythias group are a bit different.

Cheers

GC

 

[SeismicCWave]

>>The Templars were not all killed off but often absorbed into other groups. In England, as example, few were killed. A couple were fined or imprisoned but most became part of the Hospilliters. Modern Freemasonry in England started as a rather elite group, so you have others such as the Odd Fellows becoming an any man fraternity. Modern Knights templars first become Master Masons.

A neat site for reading is Phoenix Masonry
http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/<<

Thanks I will read on the Knights Templar. They were/are an intrigue bunch.


>>The Knights of Pythias were a group borne out of the American Civil War.
http://www.pythias.org/

I would list your sword as early, as the Uniform Rank and Patriarch Militant swords of the Pythias group are a bit different.<<

Thank you. I will read more about it. I am not even sure if the sword I have is real or a reproduction of some kind since the blade is really not all that rusty. I would imagine an older sword to be pretty rusty. Interesting to read up on the Knights of Pythias though.

That's part of the fun is to learn about the history through an item of interest like a sword.

 

[cbrstar]

Sorry a little off topic...And kinda a dumb question.

I heard that to be a Shriner you have to be Mason first.

So do the Knights Templar & the Shriner's secretly hate each other?

And why is there no Shriner swords other then the symbol on their hats?

 

[horseclover]

Shriners are to freemasonry like the Order of the Arrow is to the Boy Scouts. There is no hate between a sir Knight and the Shriners. Shriners have had scimitars.

Cheers

GC

 

[SeismicCWave]

Sorry a little off topic...And kinda a dumb question.

I heard that to be a Shriner you have to be Mason first.

So do the Knights Templar & the Shriner's secretly hate each other?

And why is there no Shriner swords other then the symbol on their hats?

Now that gets even more convoluted.