Michigan Banning all Lockbacks

That'd go over like a ton of bricks. People sell bootleg cds and crack pipes at some of the gas stations so I'm not overly sure that they would even care. They obviously don't care about the law.
Possibly a coalition of local residents (parents and children) threatening to boycott them...

I still think that having our representatives stop or modify the law would be best since even getting the station to stop selling them wont stop the knee jerk bill from going forward.

N2
 
Patience. This is how democracy works. Somebody complains to their legislator about something they see as a problem--in this case, it's the Detroit Police Department complaining about a gas station selling "exotic knives" to kids. The legislator hands it over to the legal staff, they gin something up, without necessarily knowing much about what's going on or thinking much about unintended consequences, and the legislator introduces the bill (assuming the complainer is important enough to pay attention to, which it would be in this case). Then the bill gets assigned to a committee.

The email from Sen. Cropsey's staffer tells you all you need to know. This bill will die in committee. If the committee never takes it up, never reports it out, it's as if it never existed. This system allows the legislators to tell their constituents, "I went to bat for you," even when they know whatever it was the constituent wanted was a bad idea.
 
GRMike said:
Patience. ....This system allows the legislators to tell their constituents, "I went to bat for you," even when they know whatever it was the constituent wanted was a bad idea.

And don't forget vigilance. Allowing legislators to go about their business unsupervised can be disasterous.
 
I dashed-off my own email to Sen Cropsey. He's from my district, and a staunch supporter of the 2001 Shall-issue CCW revision we now enjoy. This gentleman is firmly in favor of responsible gun ownership, and I'm reasonably sure he wouldn't demonize cutting tools without a great deal of specificity or reason.

"Hon. Senator Cropsey:

I have just learned of a change under consideration which would add to the
felony statute regarding prohibited weapons (specifically multi-blade locking
devices which would be considered to be weapons).

My concern is in the use of wording meant to address a specific item or group of
items which I can only assume to be primarilly throwing weapons or some form of
"Fantasy" sword. While such a device may not be traditionally used by citizens
for their work, recreation, or daily convenience, I can think of some
multi-blade locking items which would (multi-tools with more than one blade
capable of locking open, some folding knives with 2 or more locking blades,
etc.).

As one can imagine, the open-ended wording of this proposed change would lump
some very widely-carried and used implements together with the targeted weapons.
This wording should be refined further to not make the Leatherman tools (and
similar tools manufactured by several other makers) carried by thousands of your
constituents illegal on their face!

I know you to be a firm believer in the right of Michiganders to go
legally-armed from your support of our CCW law changes of 2001. Therefore, I
expect that you would not demonize a tool, but rather the illegal use thereof.

Brian D. Traub
DeWitt

--
"Our lives as we lead them are
passed on to others, whether in
physical or mental forms,
tingeing all future lives
together. This should be enough
for one who lives for truth and
service to his fellow passengers
on the way."
Luther Burbank
 
Neko2 said:
That'd go over like a ton of bricks. ...I still think that having our representatives stop or modify the law would be best since even getting the station to stop selling them wont stop the knee jerk bill from going forward.

N2

Yeah, you're right. The real problem is the police themselves requested this. If they don't get something, they will ask again.
 
Here is the email I sent to Senator Cropsey and his response. It looks like the senate version of the bill is stalled and now we need to keep letters going to the House to get that bill halted as well.

cj



>>> "CJ Buck" 6/28/2004 1:18:28 PM >>>
The Honorable Senator Alan Cropsey
Chairman Senate Judiciary Committee
Farnum Building #1005
Lansing MI 48909


RE: House Bill No. 5797 and Senate Bill 1296

Dear Senator Cropsey:
I have been in contact with John Lazet and he informed me you were not in support of the bill however I wanted to make contact with you directly as well.

Senate Bill #1296 which has been introduced would make it a felony for people in Michigan to carry typical folding knives used everyday by Michigan citizens engaged in performing our jobs; routine tasks of daily living and recreational activities. Many law-abiding people here in Michigan have for years routinely carried "a sharp-edged, multibladed device with blades capable of being locked into place. . . ." This description would include, for example, "Swiss Army knives," as well as the typical "multi-tool," which may people here in Michigan find almost indispensable.

The locking aspect targeted by the bill is critical for safety in the everyday use of folding knives. There are many tools that have more then one blade that lock open.

The difference between a tool and a weapon is in the mind of the person who holds it.

If there are people in Michigan who are misusing knives for criminal purposes, there are existing laws to deal with the situation.

I strongly urge you to withdraw the subject Bill. I believe that it would have a negative impact on people in Michigan and expose many of us to potential criminal prosecution. It would also hinder many businesses. I believe that the legal and governmental resources of the State of Michigan should be more appropriately used to prosecute the few individuals who violate the law rather than attempting to interfere with millions of law-abiding citizens.

Very truly yours,
CJ Buck
Pres/CEO Buck Knives, Inc.
-------------------------------------------------

Mr. Buck:

Thanks for the input. Once a bill is introduced, it remains a bill until it is either signed into law, or it expires at the end of the 2 year legislative session. In this case, the 2 year session ends in December of 2004. It can't be withdrawn, but I'm not planning on moving it.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

Sen. Al Cropsey
 
I just recieved another response, this time a bit more typical politician.

Mr. Moore,

Thank you for taking the time to contact me with your concerns. This
legislation is at the request of the Wayne County Prosecutor. She came
to me and said we need this to effectively keep our streets safe. The
text as you see it is not a final version.

If there is any movement at all, there will certainly be compromise and
consensus. Please continue to stay updated on the process and keep us
informed of how the legislation will best serve you.

Again, thank you for the email. I am encouraged that we will be able to
work together on this issue.

Sincerely,
Buzz Thomas


I think I may write the wayne county prosecutor now...

N2
 
"I think I may write the wayne county prosecutor now..."

Might as well, but I doubt you'll find much sympathy or flexibility there. With the current cost of email, might just be worth the try.
 
Hawkbill said:
"I think I may write the wayne county prosecutor now..."

Might as well, but I doubt you'll find much sympathy or flexibility there.

Agreed. I think you'll get nowhere fast.
 
Another reply:

Dear Mr. Moore:

This is Jami Des Chenes, Legislative Aide to Representative Bill Van Regenmorter. I am taking the liberty of replying on his behalf to let you know there are no plans to move House Bill 5797 in the Criminal Justice Committee. Many individuals have expressed concern with the definitions in the bill and the possibility that they could be interpreted broadly. I will make sure to print your email and share it with the Representative along with the others. Thank you for writing.

Jami Des Chenes
Legislative Aide to Rep. Van Regenmorter


Sounding better all the time. There are alot of R's next to our legislators names and I'm hoping that they will be more sympathetic to knife issues.
So far it is at least sounding promising.

N2
 
I have just put down the phone from our teleconference.

We had a discussion to review what to do on these two bills.

Based on the responses we have gotten so far we are deciding that both bills seem stalled in their respective committees and will "die in committee" at the end of the congressional session (2 year sessions in Michigan) this December.

AKTI will not be hiring a lobbyist however, we need to keep the letters and emails flowing to make sure the bills do not revive. AKTI will continue to monitor in case there is any change to either bill.

You never know if what you do has any impact but in this instance it sure seems like a little preemptive vigilance paid off.

Great work all....


cj
 
Good news, certainly. The initial report was enough to make me get off the fence and sign up for membership in the AKTI!

Let's hope the prosecutor has no reasons in the future for renewing her request to the legislature. As in, no teen gets hold of a fantasy blade originally meant for collectors and uses it in a threatening manner, or to show off to their peers.
 
By way of confirmation to the above responses, I'll post Sen Cropsey's email I just received.

"Dear Brian:

Thank you for your e-mail. The request for the bill came from the

Detroit Police Department due to exotic knives with blades under 3

inches being sold by a gas station to high school kids. Senator Thomas

(from Detroit) introduced SB 1296 to address this concern;

Representative Smith (also of Detroit) introduced HB 5797. Senate Bill

1296 has been referred to the Senate Judiciary Committee; HB 5797 to the

House Criminal Law Committee.

As you point out, the proposed language is so broad as to potentially

outlaw Swiss army knives and Leatherman tools which you mention, which I cannot
support.

Consequently, no hearing is scheduled for SB 1296 in the Senate; you may

wish to contact the chair of the House Criminal Law Committee, Rep. Van

Regenmorter, and express your views to him. He may be contacted at:

wmvanreg@house.mi.gov

Thank you again for your e-mail.

Sincerely,

Alan"
 
I am a Michigan resident and I'm also an employee of Michigan state government. I intend to contact my senator and representative and every committee member regarding this idiotic proposal. You can monitor both the House and Senate versions (5797 and 1296 respectively) at:

http://www.michiganlegislature.org/


Having been on the 'inside' of the Michigan legislative process since 1975 believe me when I say you should do all you can to fight this proposal no matter what some Senator's administrative assistant tells you. That said, the absolute best way to inform these legislators of your position is via an actual written letter sent snail mail.

Don't get me wrong, any contact is way better than none, but short of a personal visit with them where you hand them a check for their campaign a 'real' letter gets a lot more attention than an email and/or a phone call.

The 2-year Michigan legislative session ends this year and all proposed bills not acted on 'die'. We can't wait for that and these bills should be voted down in the committees.

Let us get this done. I'll help in anyway I can.
 
Lanny thanks for the great advice. I will get my emails off as letters as well.

cj
 
What about part time or beginning knife makers? I believe the bill would target them as well since they aren't part of a Trade organization making knives?

Why do we need laws about weapons at all? Isn't it simply enough to punish you if you A. Attempt to do harm or
B. Do harm to another person.

Wouldn't that be more simple?
 
I've said that aout guns, knives, and drugs for years. They're over-regulated.

Laws already in place.

Keith
 
Who's the Congressman handling Detroit these days? I don't live in Michigan, but I'm there twice, three times a week. I think suggesting that my $50,000/yr. security business might just have to move if this passes may be motivating.
 
Well the sad truth in my neck of the woods is that if the blade can be locked alot of sheeples consider it a weapon!
Hmmm like I couldn't use my Std Issue or a kitchen knife as a weapon!
In fact I once read that kitchen knives are the most commonly used knife in crime..........maybe we should ban them?

Kap
 
Not being a Michigan resident , I have a few comments to offer : Existing laws covering breach of the peace , brandishing ete would seem to cover the situation , In the event of the actual use of one of these devices , the law is well established . Why should a community in northern Michigan suffer for an imaginary Detroit problem ? Imagine if you will a fisherman in Isle Royul being busted for a Leatherman Wave by a LEO also carrying one .
 
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