Military Clasp Knives

[Jack Black]

Hi Jack, Thanks. That knife still remains packed away from my house move. The spec for the handle length of the knife is 4.5 inches so I estimate the blade is about 3.5-3.75 inches.

Thanks for the info S-K. Hope the move went OK, I have one due at some point myself.

Another nice pic :thumbup:

 

[quattromori]

Very interesting thread and topic.
I'm also scared by the strong pulls on these knives (GEC's are already too hard for my taste, so go figure), but the pattern is indeed interesting, and has quite a background.
Even the Italian army issued the same knife in the past, made by a couple factories in Maniago, and surely inspired by the ones made up north. Should I ever find one, I will let you know.
For some reasons, I think this pattern could easily substitute the "standard" camper knife. I would take a sheepsfoot over a spear blade for general use, and the tool on these knives could work just as fine as the two tools on boy scout knives. If they made one with a proper awl instead of that spike, I would consider it an improvement.
Obviously, these knives have nothing fancy, but who said they couldn't be made fancier?
Anyone shares this view?

Fausto

 

[Jack Black]

The pulls aren't always so strong, I think the bottle-opener on my Bladeforums 2011 knife has the stronger pull!

They are certainly a heavily built soldier-proof knife. Maybe the thinking was that if the troops ran out of ammunition, they could always throw their clasp knives!

 

[screened porch]

S-K,
That one has what appears to be an "8" on the base of the spike. Depending how you tilt and squint, it could be an "s", a "3", or a "5", but in most angles it looks like a pretty clear "8". Now it looks like a "5". I'll get out the steel wool. The blade tang says 1963/SHARMA. The opener tang might or might not have a stamp. I'll give it a scrub and let you know.
It's just 4" from screwdriver tip to the end of the round end.

 

[screened porch]

For some reasons, I think this pattern could easily substitute the "standard" camper knife. I would take a sheepsfoot over a spear blade for general use, and the tool on these knives could work just as fine as the two tools on boy scout knives. If they made one with a proper awl instead of that spike, I would consider it an improvement.
Obviously, these knives have nothing fancy, but who said they couldn't be made fancier?
Anyone shares this view?

Fausto

I'm not sure whether you're suggesting a scout knife with a sheepfoot instead of a spear, or a clasp knife with an awl instead of a spike.
I find the scout with sheepfoot easier to picture, myself.

 

[smiling-knife]

I think that is an Indian knife, given the mark, scales and bolsters. I don't have access to my knife at the moment to check the length.

 

[smiling-knife]

The WWII Army clasp knife without a spike is somewhat less common. Here are three examples that illustrate a few key features that show the development of British WWII knives. The first knife has a copper bail which was used until 1941 when it was then replaced with a steel bail. The second knife includes a bottle opener on the can opener attachment. This was introduced in 1945. Thus the third knife, with steel bail and no bottle opener, dates to 1942-44.

 

[Jack Black]

Good pics S-K, very helpful

 

[quattromori]

I'm not sure whether you're suggesting a scout knife with a sheepfoot instead of a spear, or a clasp knife with an awl instead of a spike.
I find the scout with sheepfoot easier to picture, myself.

I was actually thinking about a clasp knife with an awl...or even without the spike/awl. Like this one posted by S-K:

I think it would look better than a scout knife (if made with some nice handle material), and just as useful.

Fausto

 

[screened porch]

I think that is an Indian knife, given the mark, scales and bolsters. I don't have access to my knife at the moment to check the length.

It could be Indian. I got a double handful of "British military surplus" from a catalogue years ago.
Nothing on my opener blade, but opposite the 1963/SHARMA on the sheepsfoot is this- "N(or W?), victory rune (the famous broad arrow?), 6", as I read it. And the mark at the base of the spike is a B.

 

[screened porch]

So the army finally lost the spike, and the navy never had the opener, as I understand.
But I have a Slater with a broad arrow and 1951- what's it doing with a spike and an opener still?
If there's a book on these I'll have to get it, I guess.

 

[Jack Black]

victory rune

Hadn't thought of that before, the honour rune or Tiw or Tir, quite appropriate.

 

[HiltonP]

A fascinating thread.

A couple of questions..... Just yesterday a friend of mine showed me a knife he had just acquired which very closely resembles the WW1 model shown here ; noticeably larger knife, spear point blade (not the sheepsfoot pattern), short arrowhead blade with right angle pin, marked "Rogers" and "1939".

What is the significance of the number 1939 relative to the WW1 model?

What are their handles made of?

Do you have a link where I can find more information?

Looking forward to hearing from you.

 

[Galeocerdoshark]

So the army finally lost the spike, and the navy never had the opener, as I understand.
But I have a Slater with a broad arrow and 1951- what's it doing with a spike and an opener still?
If there's a book on these I'll have to get it, I guess.

Depends on what Navy. The Belgian Navy knives did have the can opener.

And Jack, thanks for the info on that larger (WW1) example!

 

[Jack Black]

Just yesterday a friend of mine showed me a knife he had just acquired which very closely resembles the WW1 model shown here ; noticeably larger knife, spear point blade (not the sheepsfoot pattern), short arrowhead blade with right angle pin, marked "Rogers" and "1939".

What is the significance of the number 1939 relative to the WW1 model?

What's generally referred to as the WW1 pattern was actually in service until 1939, when it was replaced by the later pattern. So your friends knife must have been one of the last of that pattern to be made (though there are anomolies and variations, some examples of which are posted elsewhere in this thread).

Could you post a picture of your friend's knife?

 

[screened porch]

Depends on what Navy. The Belgian Navy knives did have the can opener.

Aha! Thanks.
I'm going over to the stockman thread till my brain stops reeling.

 

[Galeocerdoshark]

Aha! Thanks.
I'm going over to the stockman thread till my brain stops reeling.

Haha, yeah there seem to be a lot of possible variations and no real consistency. Maybe you can draw some general outlines as to the evolution of these knives in a single country, but looking for global generalizations is... quite difficult

 

[Jack Black]

Been using this 'un...



To work on this 'un...



Try and do something about this...



It's easy to understand why so many of these knives ended up in tool boxes, they're great versatile working knives, and very tough of course.

 

[smiling-knife]

A fascinating thread.

A couple of questions..... Just yesterday a friend of mine showed me a knife he had just acquired which very closely resembles the WW1 model shown here ; noticeably larger knife, spear point blade (not the sheepsfoot pattern), short arrowhead blade with right angle pin, marked "Rogers" and "1939".

What is the significance of the number 1939 relative to the WW1 model?

What are their handles made of?

Do you have a link where I can find more information?

Looking forward to hearing from you.

That was the pattern 6353 which was issued from 1905 to 1939. They only had the year stamped on them 1937-39. Here's a Joseph Rodgers and Sons perhaps similar to your friend's knife. The scales are chequered buffalo horn.

 

[HiltonP]

Thanks guys!.....