Mills, square or round column....Update, machine on the way!!

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Sep 27, 2007
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Hey all,
I've been reading and studying and comparing for a few months now. Trying to decide on which mill to get for my small shop.

Before anyone suggests a Bridgeport type mill, let me just say I'm not set up for something of that size at this time. Maybe a few years down the road, but not now. I've got it narrowed down to a either a square column Weiss BF20 or clone like the Grizzly 704 or a beefier round column model like the Rong FU RF-31 or it's Grizzly clone the 705.

The smaller square column mills have variable speed control, dovetailed column, but a smaller and less powerful motor, often said to be much less than the quoted 1 horsepower. http://www.grizzly.com/products/Drill-Mill-with-Stand/G0704

The beefier round coulmn mills have a lot more strength with 1/5 horsepower and are quite a bit more rigid due to a whole lot more weight, in the neighborhood of 250 pounds or more. http://www.grizzly.com/products/Drill-Mill-with-Stand-29-inch-x-8-inch-Table/G0705

The drawback to the larger round column Rong Fu is that you can't raise or lower the spindle during a project without losing you center. The swiveling of the column prevents you from keeping your chuck on center with your workpiece if you have to change a bit and need to make a height adjustment. I believe though, that with good planning you can prevent this type of situation, especially since the Rong Fu has nearly five inches of spindle travel, more than double the two inches on the smaller BF-20. With that much travel you shouldn't have to loosen the column for bit changes very much if ever, especially for knife making.

The BF-20 comes with variable speed control, which is sweet of course, but that's also more electronics that can fail and cause hefty repair costs down the line. The Rong Fu has a step pulley system which is a bit more hassle but replacement belts are an economical alternative to having to replace electronics. The Rong Fu has 12 speeds from almost nothing all the way up to over 2500 RPM, so there should be a speed available for just about any application.

Is the larger mill overkill for knife making applications, does the smaller mill have everything I'll need? I know many say to get the biggest and most powerful mill you can. What are some opinions here? The price difference is only about $200 so that's not an issue in the decision.

Thanks guys!
 
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I have a Weiss 30 and love it.

I suspect the 20 would do most of what you want for making knives, but the 30 is just big enough to work on making tools to make knives with, so I'd go for it if possible.

I don't think I would want a round column due to the realigning the head issue - that would come up a lot.

Tait
 
Avoid the round column. You want accuracy and those things are a nightmare at maintaining accuracy.
 
I have a round column RF-31.

Once I got it set up it's pretty accurate and I have found for knifemaking, I have had absolutely no need to raise the head or swivel the head at all. So everything always stays zeroed on mine.

Just what I've found. Others methods may require raising/swiveling the head.

Mine is 2HP wired for 220 and weighs about 750 lbs and it's still considered a benchtop model. It does what I need it to do for now. I would upgrade down the road if I was milling damascus billets or something like that all the time.
 
My round column walks all over the place when milling!
 
John,
I was hoping to hear a comment like this. I did some figuring and don't think I'll need to do that much up and down moving of the column when doing most operations so as long as the column can be secured in any given position and stay there, the round column mill should do what I need it to.......in theory.

Bill, what type of mill do you use?

Thanks for the input so far guys, keep it coming.

I have a round column RF-31.

Once I got it set up it's pretty accurate and I have found for knifemaking, I have had absolutely no need to raise the head or swivel the head at all. So everything always stays zeroed on mine.

Just what I've found. Others methods may require raising/swiveling the head.

Mine is 2HP wired for 220 and weighs about 750 lbs and it's still considered a benchtop model. It does what I need it to do for now. I would upgrade down the road if I was milling damascus billets or something like that all the time.
 
Hey Jon,
I don't know anything about the topic, but - I know you will make anything work, you always do.
Erik
 
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Thanks Erik! I kinda picture myself more as the type of guy that flies by the seat of his pants and prays nothing goes wrong, but.......:D
 
It's a cheapie Homier Chinese mill/drill.
I would trade it for one of the square column Chinese mini mills in an instant!
 
I have the next model smaller round column, it will not cut a straight channel. I am considering replacing the hollow round column with a solid to see if that helps, or putting a solid bar inside it and backfilling with resin to couple the two

-Page
 
I've been looking at upgrading my mini mill from grizzly. Like you a bridgeport is out of the question. I've been doing research and I am looking at an industrial hobbies or precision mathews mill. The industrial hobbies can be upgraded later for cnc for some firearms stuff I am planning in the future. I talked to the owner of industrial hobbies and they will be having a new casting starting next year for an upgrade in the cnc stuff. Precision Mathews has a power feed on the spindle that I really like. So I still haven't made up my mind which I will eventually buy.

http://www.ihcnc.com/
http://precisionmatthews.com/PM45Mbenchmill.html
 
Thanks for the links Jimmy. I'm going to try and find prices for both of those but I have a feeling they'll both be quite a bit over my budget. Nice machines!

I've been looking at upgrading my mini mill from grizzly. Like you a bridgeport is out of the question. I've been doing research and I am looking at an industrial hobbies or precision mathews mill. The industrial hobbies can be upgraded later for cnc for some firearms stuff I am planning in the future. I talked to the owner of industrial hobbies and they will be having a new casting starting next year for an upgrade in the cnc stuff. Precision Mathews has a power feed on the spindle that I really like. So I still haven't made up my mind which I will eventually buy.

http://www.ihcnc.com/
http://precisionmatthews.com/PM45Mbenchmill.html
 
I say, square with a knee,

R8 so you can carry the tooling to the next mill when you upgrade.




There has been quite an advance in CNC home sized mills - that's interesting, but the $ are much more than manuals.

I had trouble finding $ on the last links, but they were $10,000 ish -
10x more than the ones you are looking at.



Power feed is nice, see if you can get it or add it on later
 
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Not sure if this would fit your budget but here's what i got. I know of at least a few full time makers using these, in fact i think i saw a picture of one in the Bob Dozier shop, minus the power feed. I've been very happy with mine.


mill2.jpgmill1.jpg
 
Not sure if this would fit your budget but here's what i got. I know of at least a few full time makers using these, in fact i think i saw a picture of one in the Bob Dozier shop, minus the power feed. I've been very happy with mine.


View attachment 231559View attachment 231560


It looks like you may have the same machine as a buddy, can you give me all the info on your power feed unit?
It is an "Align" ?
 
You need a Bridgeport or clone. :foot: ;)

Seriously though, mass and rigidity are always your friend in tools. I have a little Sherline mini lathe... it's pretty neat-O for doing things like knocking a few thou off of some brass or nickel silver... but forge out a 1" twist damascus billet and go try to clean it up with that thing :grumpy: Unless you start looking at GARGANTUA-NORMOUS machines... like the 50' between center lathes they had at my old job... it's rare you can't do small work on a big machine. But you can't do big work on a small machine.

A machine like RJSmith posted would be a life long tool for most knife makers. Big enough and rigid enough to do most any knife making or knife-building-doo-dad-gadget type of machining, but wouldn't require the space, $$$, etc that a 5 or 10,000# mill would need.

I have a round column mill drill and it will do most knife things I ask it to, but I wasn't happy till I finally bought a BP clone.... and a 5k# Cincinnati, ;) LOL..... But seriously, I think a machine like RJ's wouldn't leave you wanting more for years to come (if ever). :)
 
Thanks for all the input. The machine that Rj posted is one I've been eyeing for several months but the price is a stretch.

Nick, I felt confident that the round column mill would probably do everything I needed it to for knife making and you confirmed that. They get a bad rap for not being able to raise or lower the head without losing alignment with the workpiece, but again I was just thinking in terms of my own needs for knife making and it would probably be just fine. I know several people that have round column mills who are quite happy with them, one of them being you buddy Chuck Bybee who I just got off the phone with about twenty minutes ago. His needs are a little different than mine and while the round column works great for what he's using it for it might not be the best choice for my needs so I am left contemplating.

I too think that the Shop Fox/Grizzly mill that I've been looking at, the one that RJ posted is probably a great choice that would do everything I ever need. Looks like I might be saving a bit longer to just make the right purchase the first time..........or not;)
 
Jon-
I've worked on everything from a a rong fu up to a full size VMC. Take my word and don't buy the round column crap. If you MUST buy crap, at least buy the square column crap :p
If you can get something with a knee, you will be a much happier fellow when all is said and done. If I were in your situation, I would look for a small Clausing or Hardinge. Not easy to find but if you look, eventually you will find!
Having said that, here's a tip for anyone with a round column: mount a lazer pointer on the side of the head and point it at a target on a wall. The farther away (within reason) the better. Make a dot where the lazer hits it before you move the head. I don't need to tell you the rest.
 
LOL, thanks Phil! Not a bad idea for getting back to center on the round column model. I run into this occasionally on my drill press, maybe I'll set one up!

As far as the round cloumn goes, I think I could make do with one if I had to. I think at this point I'm definitely going to hold out for a square column, a better quality one......you know, something big and nasty:D

Thanks!

Jon-
I've worked on everything from a a rong fu up to a full size VMC. Take my word and don't buy the round column crap. If you MUST buy crap, at least buy the square column crap :p
If you can get something with a knee, you will be a much happier fellow when all is said and done. If I were in your situation, I would look for a small Clausing or Hardinge. Not easy to find but if you look, eventually you will find!
Having said that, here's a tip for anyone with a round column: mount a lazer pointer on the side of the head and point it at a target on a wall. The farther away (within reason) the better. Make a dot where the lazer hits it before you move the head. I don't need to tell you the rest.
 
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