More Anvil Questions

J

J. MacDonald

Joined
Jun 8, 2000
Messages
3,140
I went and looked at a couple anvils tonight and am hoping to get some advice here. One was a 95lb Vulcan that had a couple good sized chips out of one side and the other one was a 115lb and had a C in a triangle on one side and an M on the other side in a triangle. The woman wanted $75..00 for the Vulcan and 95 for the heavier one. Any ideas about IDing the C/M marked anvil? It's top was in much better shape than the Vulcan. They belonged to her father who passed away. There was a third one right at a hundred lbs but it appeared to have been refinished at some time long ago and most of the markings were ground off. She got the weights from putting them on a bathroom scale. She said that she hit them all with a hammer and that the C/M and the 100lb model really had a ring to them where the Vulcan was kind of dull sounding.

What do you guys think?

John
 
Hi John-

Here is a page with LOADS of information on it that will help you out. :D

http://www.anvilfire.com/21centbs/main.htm

I looked at a Vulcan at a farm auction once, and it was a great anvil. I would have bought it, had the snotty antique dealers not been there looking to purchase very expensive yard ornaments.

It's sad so many anvils miss out on good homes, being used for their intended purposes.

A really easy check for rebound, is to take a hammer and just let the hammer face fall on the anvil (don't actually whack it). An anvil with good rebound will cause the hammer to bounce around. A dead anvil will allow the hammer to just fall and stay down.

While I ultimately wanted a large anvil... a 95 lb. anvil is plenty big to get started with forging blades.

That woman obviously didn't research current markets for anvils, as most people are charging AT LEAST $2/lb. Many used anvils are up around $3/lb. around here.

If the faces are in decent condition like you said, I'd say go for it!!! :D

-Nick-
 
I'd say the Vulcan had a chip about 1/4" x 2" on one edge toward the rear and a couple more 1/4" x 1/4" chips at other spots. The two bigger ones were in much better shape as far as dings go, but were rusty.

I'm not sure I'm even interested in forging yet, but having followed a couple threads, these seemed cheap from what I've been reading and you can't have enough tools right? It would be nice to have something better than the flat on my 4" Craftsman vice to pound on once in a while besides my surface plate.

So at these prices, I should see if either of the larger ones have a better bounce than the Vulcan and buy one eh? But I'm still curious as to if anyone has any info about the markings on the C/M one.

John
 
rust won't hurt an anvil.

The vulcan anvils are real iffy as far as quality goes. they are cast iron with a tool steel top. No ring. Look closely at the top you should see a line where the face is attached to the body. Beware any seperations along this line or if the face is very thin, I'd pass.

Take a ball bearing with you or a small hammer and drop it from about 2 ft above the face of the anvil note the rebound.

The one you want is the one with the best rebound.

A couple guys been looking for anvils lately you might work a deal. I'm betting the Columbian is the best of the bunch.

If the "no marking" anvil has square hole in the waist its a wrought anvil markings sometimes get lost and in no way hurt a good anvil.
 
The amount an anvil rings when you hit it won't tell you much, other than the extent to which you will annoy the neighbors when you use it. The amount of surface rust you see won't tell you much either, except maybe how long it has been since the anvil was used.

The most important things to look for are rebound and flatness. Some anvils, after years and years of use, develop a bit of a sway back that you might not notice initially, but will result in all your blades being curved. Bring a straight edge with you, lay it flat on the face, and look to see if there's any light showing underneath it.

If you can find a 100# anvil with good rebound, a flat face, at least one good edge, and a price tag under $100, you're getting a good deal.
 
I've got 2 vulcans in the shop that do just fine some people sya that they aren't any good, but I actually kinda like 'em, they're a lot quieter than solid wrought anvils or one piece cast steel. the only problem with vulcans is the chipping along the edges.

If you think you have any interest in forging buy at least one anvil, at those prices you'd be foolish not to, heck buy all three, and sell the other two on Ebay to recoup losses, you'll probably end up getting paid to pick the best anvil :)

A sway backed anvil does not nescesarilly result in things ending up curved, in fact it's much easier to straighten things on an anvil with a slight sway back.

Tony
 
ysforge said:
A sway backed anvil does not nescesarilly result in things ending up curved, in fact it's much easier to straighten things on an anvil with a slight sway back.
Click to expand...

That's probably just a matter of personal preference, I suppose. Me, I prefer a flat face.
 
I just meant to say dont run from an anvil just because of a slight swayback

That said, I've only got two swaybacked anvils in the shop, and their both over 150 years old, the rest are all as flat as could be :)

Tony
 
John, the one with the C and M on it is a Columbia cast steel anvil, made by the comumbian hardware company of Cleveland Ohio. According to Richard Postman's Anvils in America, Combia was "in all likelihood the first cast steel anvil makers in the US and definately the most successful. They manufactured anvils up until 1922 or 1923. Then they imported them from Sodfors of Sweden until 1927, but those have the full Sodfors trademark, while the ones manufactured by Columbian "have no markings, with the exception of a trademark; an inverted recessed pyramid with a raised "C" in the center. Usually there is a raised letter on the other side or in some cases somewhere else. This letter is a foundry or pattern mark., and as far as I can tell has no relationship to the date of manufacture or weight. However, the 100-pound anvils generally have an "M" in relief on them."

Yep, I'd say thats a columbian. Good price too. If its reasonably smooth and flat, I'd take it. Good luck.
Ed
 
OK, While I'm a newbie stock removal kind of beginner knifemaker, and haven't totally committed to the idea of forging knives, I suddenly have three anvils in my garage. I found them in a local add and couldn't pass them up. I figure I'll keep one and let the other two find good homes with young knifemakers on a budget. I've spoken with several by email about this since I started this thread and will have to figure out who gets teh other two. Shipping might have a significant influence on the final outcome as there's a couple guys on the west coast sort of near by (driving distance, no shipping) and there's a couple other guys on the other side of the country.

What we have here from the quick research I've done over the last couple days is three anvils:

#1 is a 95lb Vulcan Brand which is a wrought iron body with a tool steel face which is prone to chipping as evidenced on this anvil. Because of teh construction of this anvil there is no ring to it. It sounds more like striking rock when I dropped a 15/16 steel ball on it as compared to the other two anvils here. The face is chipped along a lot of the sides, but is fairly flat when checked with a scale tapering only about 1/16" at each end in the last couple inches. The 15/16 steel ball bounces about 20"-21" when dropped from 24" by my eye after three tries.

#2 is a 100lb Lakeside as far as I can tell by the partial logo on the side. It looks like at some point the anvil sides were ground back to remove dings and create new shoulders flush with the body on the (no ledge) but theres a good part of what looks to be a Lakeside logo still showing. This anvil rings when struck. The top is in pretty good condition and the edges have some chipping, but not a lot. The steel ball bounces to about 20"-21" much like the Vulcan but with much more noise from the ringing (which sounds good to me).

#3 is a 115lb. Columbia cast steel anvil. It is in the best overall condition as far as I can tell It's also the largest at 115lbs.. It's 23" from tip to tail and rings long when struck, even with a chip brush knocking off spyder webs. The top is in pretty decent shape with good ledges still and minimal chipping compared to the other two. The wierd thing is that from the ringing and what was posted about this companies, I'd expect a much better bounce from the steel ball. It only bounces about 5" as compared to around 20" on the other two. I'm thinking the thick coating of (old) black paint might be the issue, but would it make that big a difference? I might have to sand the paint off the face on this anvil to get a real bounce test.

While I think I could live with any of these for my first anvil, I'm presently leaning towards the Lakeside even though it's a bit lighter than the Colombia, and a bit more beat up.

Any opinions?

I also got the Edge of The Anvil book by Jack Andrews which seems to be a basic guide to the smithy.

Then there was the Starrett Last Word , 10 pc adjustable parrallel set and Mitutoyo 2" travel dial indicater that I had to have. I already have a Last Word and a 2" Mitutoyo, so I'll probably have to pass them along to somebody that needs em.

I'm sorry that I never got to know the old fellow that owned these tools before me, and I tried to be fair to his kids when buying them. I'll take good care of the ones I'm now taking care of and find good homes for the ones I don't need.

John
 

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Congratulations, they all look like fine beginers anvils, and you'll probably keep whatever one you choose for a long time. now you just need a way to get stuff hot :)
 
John, good on ya for the decent prices and passing the others on to a good hoime.


Yeah I'm thinking the paint might be the problem. Sand a spot off and try it again.
 
Man, I love seeing a row of anvils!!!

Even in need of some care... I suppose it's like a car buff seeing three old cars sitting in a garage awaiting some love and care.

There's a ton of history sitting there... and the possibility for much more to be made!

From what you wrote, I'd go with the Lakeside as well.

Many anvils have been through fires (imagine that a fire in a smithy ;) ) which of course ruins the heat-treat on the anvil. A 5" return on the Columbian is a good sign that that anvil could have seen a fire. It would still be a good anvil to learn on... but then again, some heavy coats of paint probably would screw up the rebound.

I am glad you bought all three. This means all three will continue to be used as tools... in knifemakers' shops no less! :D

-Nick-

http://www.wheelerknives.com
 
Way to go John. Nice start on a collection :D It took me three years to get that many anvils.....of course then I couldn't stop :rolleyes: I'm up to five now, but its not like a problem or anything. I mean, I COULD stop any time I want to,.......I just don't see why I should........
The lakeside looks like the best bet for a keeper. They're supposed to be pretty good. Congrats! I would suggest keeping them all till you start forging and forge a few on each and see which one suites you best.
Have fun!
Ed
 
Happycat, while I believe you can't have enough tools, for me, three anvils are too many tools. I have a tiny house, an even tinier shop and no place to store three anvils. Even one is going to pose some issues, but I kinda feel like any really well equipped shop should have at least one, even if it's only for straightening things on and peeining a pin occasionally. One day I might forge a knife, but not likely this week.

Now precision measuring tools, you really can't have too many of those and most of them are small so you can stick them in nooks and crannies...

John
 
well heck nobody has asked the obvious question.

Which ones do you want to sell and what do you want for em. Wanna Trade for more stuff you need? :D :D :D
 
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