Mugen knives - HAP40 Steel - any good?

[colsul]

Hello all =)
I have a whole collection of Zwilling JA Henckel knives that I have been using but am tired of having to constantly sharpen the Stainless Steel, so I went out and bought 2 Mugen knives from Knifewear. They are a Mugen HAP40 Gyuto knife (240mm -- approx 9.5") for $700 Cdn and a Mugen HAP40 Nakiri knife (165mm -- approx 6.5") for $630 Cdn. I have since been trying to find information on these and have had no luck. Can anyone tell me if these were a good buy? Did I get ripped off or find a super deal? Any feedback would be appreciated. Thank you all.

 

[KingMC]

A simple google search would reveal some good info on it, from what I can see it's popular in high-end kitchen knives, probably for a good reason.

 

[Sikael]

Hello all =)
I have a whole collection of Zwilling JA Henckel knives that I have been using but am tired of having to constantly sharpen the Stainless Steel, so I went out and bought 2 Mugen knives from Knifewear. They are a Mugen HAP40 Gyuto knife (240mm -- approx 9.5") for $700 Cdn and a Mugen HAP40 Nakiri knife (165mm -- approx 6.5") for $630 Cdn. I have since been trying to find information on these and have had no luck. Can anyone tell me if these were a good buy? Did I get ripped off or find a super deal? Any feedback would be appreciated. Thank you all.

Welcome! It's a very high end steel, with properties that might even make it superior to CPM M4 in some respects, if the maker knows what they're doing. Spyderco are doing a run of HAP40 knives, similar to what they did with ZDP-189 and Super Blue. I don't know anything about Mugen, but yeah, a search through the BF archives or Google will probably yield results. I recall seeing YouTube reviews of HAP40 kitchen knives that were pretty impressive. It's rep for edge retention is very good. But this is all secondhand, I'm afraid. The price? No idea. It could be a great deal, or not. If they had a proper HT, it appears like that steel will stay sharp much longer than Solingen steel from Zwilling or Wusthof, and take a keener edge.

EDIT: I got curious and looked around, they seem to be well-made knives, with a Damascus blade that has a Hap40 core, very high 67-68 Rockwell. Those should do a very nice job slicing and whatnot, if that's the kind you've got... pics didn't post.

 

[colsul]

Thank you Sikael. I appreciate the info you provided as well as the pics. Are those your knives?

 

[colsul]

...and thank you too, KingMC!

 

[Sikael]

Thank you Sikael. I appreciate the info you provided as well as the pics. Are those your knives?

No, those are just pics of Mugen knives I came across after reading your post... I was wondering if they looked like yours . Are your knives Damascus with HAP40 cores, or solid HAP40?

 

[KenHash]

While I certainly haven't heard of every Japanese kitchen knife maker, Mugen is new to me.
Does anyone know who makes these Mugen Knives? Googling around I found them sold only through Knifewear Canada.
I couldn't find them for sale inthe U.S., although maybe I just didn't look hard enough.
Interstingly a search through Google Japan produced no hits, suggesting it's a brand name specifically for an export market.
My guess right now is that it may be Knifewear's own brand name product . In the photos above, the larger characters read
"MU GEN" and the smaller letters say Powder High Speed Steel.

 

[Sikael]

Hmm. Yeah. I read some discussion about them on a Kitchen Knife forum, but you're right, the info seems sparse. The fact there's no Japanese sites with info seems odd. Could it be a custom maker?

 

[colsul]

I'm actually not sure. The boxes were missing the write-up that was supposed to be included.

Thank you everyone for your feedback. It has been greatly appreciated.

 

[colsul]

While I certainly haven't heard of every Japanese kitchen knife maker, Mugen is new to me.
Does anyone know who makes these Mugen Knives? Googling around I found them sold only through Knifewear Canada.
I couldn't find them for sale inthe U.S., although maybe I just didn't look hard enough.
Interstingly a search through Google Japan produced no hits, suggesting it's a brand name specifically for an export market.
My guess right now is that it may be Knifewear's own brand name product . In the photos above, the larger characters read
"MU GEN" and the smaller letters say Powder High Speed Steel.

Hi Ken. I found it strange that I couldn't find anything on Mugen as well. I just thought it may be a new brand or something. I really appreciate the translation of the characters!!! Thankyou! I am thinking that although they are beautiful knives (in my opinion), I may return them and find a more well-known knife brand with the HAP40 steel. I am just a little leery about not being able to find any info.

 

[Sikael]

Here's a post from Kitchenknifeforums, copy/pasting a press release from Knifewear listing Mugen as a Knifewear exclusive. That anwers that, I guess. I don't know if that's necessarily a bad thing, though. ( http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/archive/index.php/t-16208.html ) EDIT: Actually, it says the HAP40 knives are exclusives, Mugen may not be.

"12-29-2013, 12:05 AM

Hey all,

Knifewear, a very reputable Canadian knife shop, sent out their holiday newsletter with the following:

"Mugen are the Holy Grail knives we've been looking for for years. As you may know, making a carbon steel core clad with stainless Damascus steel is not possible……till now. Mugen is making just such a beast and this is also exclusive to Knifewear. The first line is HAP40 HighSpeed Carbon steel (HRC 67-68) with a cool western handle. The HRC tests came back with scores ranging from 67.4 - 68 and the structure is super fine and remarkably consistent. All of this means that the knives will stay sharp a super long time (maybe longer than anything else we carry) and that the cut will be amazingly smooth/silky."

I've seen HAP40 damascus knives before, so I know some of this is just marketing spin, but am I am curious about why (and if) it wasn't possible to clad a semi-stainless steel like HAP40 with stainless damascus? Any ideas?"

 

[salmonkiller]

HAP 40 is good stuff for kitchen knives .Holds an edge better than any of the other Japanese Kitchen knife steels wither is carbon or stainless from my experiences.It may be prone to chipping depending on the HT/ hardness.I have a Kohetsu and it really holds an edge longer than SG2 or Super Blue from my experiences.I have not had any chipping issues with my knife and highly recommend Kohetsu knives if you can find one.I have no idea about Mugen knives.They look quite expensive.Knifewear is a good CA dealer and has a nice selection.I have purchase from them before.

 

[KenHash]

Thanks to all for the above. Clearly "Mugen" is a Knifewear exclusive brand, which explains the lack of info on the net.
I doubt that they are a custom maker's product as I think Knifewear would find it beneficial to sell the Maker's name. Usually
if there is no Maker's name attached, it's a factory knife. An example would be the "Miyabi" knives that are all made in Henckels's
own factory in Seki. But a "factory knife" coming out of Seki incorporates far more hand grinding, polishing and finishing than
one manufactured elsewhere so that isn't so much of an issue in terms of quality, In fact these MUGEN knives might be the best
knives around but the information about them is just too sparce.

 

[Sikael]

Thanks to all for the above. Clearly "Mugen" is a Knifewear exclusive brand, which explains the lack of info on the net.
I doubt that they are a custom maker's product as I think Knifewear would find it beneficial to sell the Maker's name. Usually
if there is no Maker's name attached, it's a factory knife. An example would be the "Miyabi" knives that are all made in Henckels's
own factory in Seki. But a "factory knife" coming out of Seki incorporates far more hand grinding, polishing and finishing than
one manufactured elsewhere so that isn't so much of an issue in terms of quality, In fact these MUGEN knives might be the best
knives around but the information about them is just too sparce.

That sums it up nicely. The handles look different from some of the mid-range Japanese knives I've seen. The blade, however, of San Mai Damascus with a 67-Rockwell HAP40 core and stainless cladding, that got my attention... but it could be fairly common, for all I know. I wish I knew more about kitchen knives.