My Cattaraugus 225Q

[Joben]

I have a Cattaraugus 225Q, it's similar in many ways to a Ka-Bar Marine fighting knife. From what little I know it was WWII issue in the same role.

Here is a picture, not of mine, I just found it on google.

I found it in my grandparents basement some years ago after their death. My father didn't know were it came from, no one on that side of the immediate family served. The sheath it was wearing is for a lefty, which is also a puzzlement...But i digress...

It is in poor shape. The spine of the blade has some small chips, as if it was used to pound something. The cutting edge however had no damage a few passes with a stone didn't fix. The blade is straight, and the steel is good with no rust..

The hand guard wiggles very slightly. The pommel wiggles a lot. The leather washers are black, rock hard and have become extremely slippery.

The pommel differs from a Ka-Bar in that it is 3 steel washers. There is a rectangular hole for the tang, and on either side there are what appear to be nails (they also wiggle). Despite all the play nothing shows any sign of coming off, though I'm not sure what hard use would do.

I would love restore the handle. It is a capable blade which I would like to return to good use.
However, I will shelve that plan if it has any great value as a curio in it's current rough, but unaltered condition.

What say you all?

 

[sceva]

The sheath for these appear to be lefty's but it is my understanding that that's how they were designed. I believe it's normal. The knives are beefy because they were meant to open crates etc. The heavy pommel was for using as a makeshift hammer.

 

[cj65]

It would be good to rehandle it. It would be a fun project, and not too hard. You cannot screw it up, and best of all, it is not a sentimental piece. Go for it! If the handle is slippery, it is currently dangerous. This may be another reason to tinker. Have fun!

 

[knarfeng]

I have a Cattaraugus 225Q, it's similar in many ways to a Ka-Bar Marine fighting knife. From what little I know it was WWII issue in the same role.



It is in poor shape. The spine of the blade has some small chips, as if it was used to pound something. The cutting edge however had no damage a few passes with a stone didn't fix. The blade is straight, and the steel is good with no rust..

The hand guard wiggles very slightly. The pommel wiggles a lot. The leather washers are black, rock hard and have become extremely slippery.

The pommel differs from a Ka-Bar in that it is 3 steel washers. There is a rectangular hole for the tang, and on either side there are what appear to be nails (they also wiggle). Despite all the play nothing shows any sign of coming off, though I'm not sure what hard use would do.

I would love restore the handle. It is a capable blade which I would like to return to good use.
However, I will shelve that plan if it has any great value as a curio in it's current rough, but unaltered condition.

What say you all?

The Cattaraugus 225Q was designed to be a Quartermaster's knife, although some did find use on the front lines. It was made with a thick tip so that it could be used for prying shipping crates open. Likewise it was made with a heavy butt for pounding them shut. It would not surprise me if some one over the years used the back of the blade for harsh activity.

I doubt it has any great value in an unaltered condition. They show up fairly frequently on ebay. There was a thread some time ago written by a guy who had spruced his up. I think it was in the General Discussion forum. You could use Google to search this site to find it.

 

[IVANKERLEY]

post some picts of yours before ya do anything to it, these are damn tough knives and there are alot floating around, personally i wouldnt do much more than bang the active rust off and use some mink oil on the leather, they are collectable just not all that rare mine was 32 bucks :thumbup:
this link is pretty goodhttp://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5822461
mines below and in that link
ivan

[/IMG]

 

[Jeff Clark]

There were a lot of these made and it will probably never have tremendous collector value. Check ebay to figure out the current market value. To my mind they are one of the best combat/survival knives ever made. Contrary to the common story they were not made for opening crates. There were crowbars for that. They were bought by the quartermaster corp as a secondary standard. They bought a lot of "hunting" knives to meet wartime demands. Sometimes this was even called a commando knife. It is beefier than either the MKII/Kabar or the M3 fighting knife. The large textured pommel could be used for hammering in a pinch. The handle is better than either the MKII or the M3.

I got one strictly as a user. I did a little work on my handle with saddle soap. I got it wet and sort of hammered on the leather washers to get them to swell. That tightened it up. The handles were always somewhat rough. The "left hand" sheath was not particularly for a left-handed user. It was designed to be carried on your left so that you could carry something more critical (like your pistol) on your right side.

 

[Joben]

Oh i remembered an old pic of mine that I had.
Maybe i'll take some better ones, but here it is.

Do any of you know how the handle is put together? I'm having trouble figuring out what purpose the two nail like thinks in the pommel serve.

 

[knarfeng]

There were a lot of these made and it will probably never have tremendous collector value. Check ebay to figure out the current market value. To my mind they are one of the best combat/survival knives ever made. Contrary to the common story they were not made for opening crates. There were crowbars for that. They were bought by the quartermaster corp as a secondary standard. They bought a lot of "hunting" knives to meet wartime demands. Sometimes this was even called a commando knife. It is beefier than either the MKII/Kabar or the M3 fighting knife. The large textured pommel could be used for hammering in a pinch. The handle is better than either the MKII or the M3.

I got one strictly as a user. I did a little work on my handle with saddle soap. I got it wet and sort of hammered on the leather washers to get them to swell. That tightened it up. The handles were always somewhat rough. The "left hand" sheath was not particularly for a left-handed user. It was designed to be carried on your left so that you could carry something more critical (like your pistol) on your right side.

I bow to the superior historian.

 

[IVANKERLEY]

Oh i remembered an old pic of mine that I had.
Maybe i'll take some better ones, but here it is.

Do any of you know how the handle is put together? I'm having trouble figuring out what purpose the two nail like thinks in the pommel serve.

to keep the handle together kinda like a locking system i think, i seem to remember a post explaining it i'll see if i can search it up, looks like the handle may have been reshaped dunno is that a scan rather than a photo, that could be throwing me off, not sure looks like the handle and pommel are flattened out, is the pommel perfectly round? And there should be a rough patch in the middle of the handle, was a manufacturing flaw, if not chances are somebody try smoothing things out
WD-40 and 000 Steel wool for the blade and something to try and swell up the leather discs on the handle, love this style of knife:thumbup:
or you could rehandle it i suppose
ivan

 

[Joben]

Yeh, that's an old scan, which skews the perspective a bit.
Both handle and pommel are oval. Also the blade has a small 'blood groove' that doesn't show up well in this pic.

 

[IVANKERLEY]

hope i didnt imagine it
Heres an article from Frank Trzaska (U.S. Military Knives.com)

the Catt knife uses three independent steel disks stacked on top of each other and finished off with two nails driven through line up holes on the disks into the leather. It is a simple yet ingenious system to secure the pommel with a minimum amount of trouble and it is extremely strong

He's a member here on BF goes by "trz"
ivan

 

[Jeff Clark]

Here is a link to a very extensive article by Frank Trzaska on US Militaria forum.
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t31346.html

 

[Joben]

Thank you both. Hmm maybe i can tighten mine up by just pounding those nails down then...

 

[Joben]

Well i tightened up the nails. And that seems to work, but I took it outside and tried to baton a couple pieces of kindling and they promptly got looser than ever....so I took it apart...The construction is really quite clever. I'll take more pics.

For now, a few mediocre pre-surgery shots.

 

[RKH]

There was an article in Knives 95 or around that time that Chuck Karwan authored. He rated the knife very high in quality and sharpness/edge holding. And he said it was not used for opening crates as some of have suggested years ago but may have been issued to Quartemaster or by them. I don't have the book anymore and this is from memory and may be wrong on who it was issued to. He thought it was a better knife than the Kabar and Camullus brands and liked the pins that hold the handles together.

RKH

 

[bigbob68]

Here is mine. I found it and polished/cleaned it up. Top is a Custom and bottom is my classic. Sorry for the crappy phone pics. Left handed sheath as well, but i had mine cleaned up and I will try and get some better photos of it up. It is a hell of a knife for the price I paid, free, found it in the bottom of a box in the attic. Had to be my uncle's knife from WWII, R.I.P. Uncle Bill.