My thought on the sword handle / grip

S

sams

Joined
Apr 21, 2001
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I would like to hear opinions on the handle of the sword. I saw I nice sword at a gun show by a custom maker. I do not want to mention any names. His sword had a ROUND wood grip. I thought it was poorly designed. Clearly he never used a sword in training. The grip must let the user know where the cutting edge is when the he picks it up. I see allot of swords designed this way. It shows the builders ignorance, and how to use the sword. This has been on my mind for a while and I thought I would "throw it out" for discussion. I am willing to listen to other ideas. :)
 
Knives, swords and other tools should have a grip that "indexes" [tells you where the tool is headed ] . That comes out to be oval ! not round.
 
I am sure there are traditional, historical examples of round gripped-weapons in the museums and collections of the world, but I personally can't think of any. The round grip is not 'correct' egonomically speaking because the hand does not make a perfectly round shape when it closes on something. As said above, the mind and body need some indicator of 'which way is up' and the ovoid shape gives us that. Finally, we need to prevent the object twisting the in hand when it strikes. A baseball bat doesn't have the indexing problem (though we're warned as kids not to strike a ball on the label, and you still don't want to lose your grip, so pine tar), everything else does: Hammer, sword, knife, axe. The pistol, too, has always had an ovoid shape to the grip to make sure it points where we want the projectile to go.

My thoughts.

Zieg
 
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It depends on the purpose. If it's a fantasy replica, I don't see that it matters that much. But yeah, all of mine are indexable.
 
milit-gladii-Nim.jpg
milit-gladius-griff2.jpg
 
That pommel may be round but the bolster certainly isn't. Did they perhaps use the thumb on bolster to index ?
 
KP513 said:
Many museum pieces of Roman gladii have full circular grips
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Yeah, and look what happened to them. :p

I have a feeling the weight and air resistance would keep you on track for the most part. It would just feel wrong to swing a sword sideways no matted what the handle shape.
 
The Roman Gladius was a stabbing implement. Yes, it could cut as well as any short sword of the time, but the Roman infantry formations were tight and their shields were big. Writings from the period refer to it is a thrusting weapon over and over. Lack of an index for a swing is a pain, but the guard is oriented with the edge and probably provided good sense of where the edge was going.
 
sams said:
I would like to hear opinions on the handle of the sword. I saw I nice sword at a gun show by a custom maker. I do not want to mention any names. His sword had a ROUND wood grip. I thought it was poorly designed. Clearly he never used a sword in training. The grip must let the user know where the cutting edge is when the he picks it up. I see allot of swords designed this way. It shows the builders ignorance, and how to use the sword. This has been on my mind for a while and I thought I would "throw it out" for discussion. I am willing to listen to other ideas. :)
Click to expand...

Did you bother to chat with the fellow and discuss swords in general? You mention it is a nice sword, then mention faults. Was it a commission for someone, or a sword for sale? An art sword or meant as purposeful? If you just mean to ask it in a general sense, I personally kind of feel it in bad taste "to not offend anyone".

Sure, a simple straight cylinder probably does suck for just about any sword but the gladius examples above are shown in profile only. We don't see all angles. We certainly can't comment on the custom you saw but offer only a general statement. If you made an assessment of the guy without bothering to discuss it with him, well, we'll never know.

What looks round in profile, often is not.

Cheers

GC
 
Round or not?
-17th-century-rare-hounslow-style-hanger-or-short-sword.-english-circa-1680.-ref-6474.-167-p.jpg


Round or not?
british-swords-history-5.jpg


Round or not?
bms-mow1.jpg


Round or not?
LoResHighland%3FIacop.jpg


Round or not?
zwei2.jpg


Round or not?
11vn1b8.jpg


Round or not?
11323-1.jpg


Round or not?
aa_compare02.jpg


Cheers

GC
 
I'd also bet, most Gladius handles would have a bit of oblong. Many had squarish handles (or rectangle-ish).

That "round" handle above seems to have a bit of oval, thought it van be hard to tell with a two dimensional picture.

I'm no sword expert, of course.

Even in big knives, cutting is hard when the handle can torque in your hand.

Great pics Horseclover.

It seems to my eye that some of those have oblong shape (like the two handed/bastard/great swords?)

The rounder looking handles seem to be more thrust oriented, or have a knuckle guard, which would help keep the sword oriented.

Seems like some daggers have more rounded handles.
 
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Well, well, well. I held the sword and the handle was round like a piece of pipe, and I didn't like it. I thought the blade was solid and nice and told him so. I did not want to insult the man regarding his round handle.
 
Idk, my rapiers have round, albeit tapering, handles. Doesn't really seem to matter much. most of the swords Horseclover pictured are wrapped with wire, grooved, or have increased friction added in some other way,such as the ringlike protrusions under leather wrapping. I do think that a hilt too large for ones' hand is a downside, no matter what the style may be. I'm not sure a perfectly (or close to perfect) round hilt would be a real detriment, however. There are a lot of tools with round handles, and those are made to be used all day, such as rakes, hoes, and shovels. Most pikes and spears have round handles as well. I'm sure round is undesirable with some items that absolutely MUST be held properly to operate, such as a longbow, I'm just not sure a sword or knife, for that matter, would suffer much penalty from it.
 
sams said:
Well, well, well. I held the sword and the handle was round like a piece of pipe, and I didn't like it. I thought the blade was solid and nice and told him so. I did not want to insult the man regarding his round handle.
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Yet even in not mentioning his name, you go ahead and insult him here.

Perhaps you'd like to expand on your comment of seeing a lot of swords made "that" way. A good number of swords in history have quite round ferrules and even the pommels on the other end. I spent less than ten minutes showing a variety of swords across history that have the very feature I mentioned, while most of those are not truly round in cross section for the bulk of the grip. You made another rather sweeping comment on Roman gladius, perhaps not knowing swords in history both predating that and some to this day have similar characteristics. From what you have shared in comment so far, one _could_ assume you know little about swords but I do agree, a simple cylinder does suck on many sword types.

What types of sword training do you enjoy and describe a bit what type of gripping you employ in your practice. Do you transition from one grip to another? Use a simple hammer grip? Painting as with a broad brush? Hand shake? Two hands? One? I find a lot of swords and knives index immediately with a thumb to the flat.

Bo Randall obviously got it very wrong when he designed his model #18 ;)

Cheers

GC
 
I think you are nit-picking. I don't think I called him names. I said I didn't like or think a round handle is correct for use. I have over 10 years in Tai Chi Sword. I have been taught by masters.

I gave my modle 18 to my grandson, didn't like the handle. :-)
 
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