Nail Nicks and Pulls

[black mamba]

While I am not overly critical of fit and finish issues, I do have definite preferences when it comes to design elements. In starting this discussion of nail nicks and pulls, I thought it important to outline different criteria for consideration, at least as I see them. Everyone is certainly encouraged to add anything else you think should be included. Different blades, to me, look better with specific types of nicks. What say you all?

1) Type (crescent, long pull, etc.)

2) Embellishment (color filled, match striker, etc.)

3) Placement (where on the blade)

4) Orientation (parallel to spine, swedge, handle, etc.)

5) Number (double pulls on same side of blade, or on both sides of blade)

My favorites are deep, blackened long pulls, parallel with the spine, running from the back of a cut swedge to the front of the tang. These work well on large, master blades, particularly spears, clips, drop points and speys. I have seen several examples in the "Old Knives" thread where the long pull runs all the way through the tang to the bolster. Even though historically accurate, I don't like the look.

If crescent nicks are used, they should either be parallel to the top edge of the blade, or to the top edge of the handle when closed. I'm not a fan of helter-skelter placement. I like crescent nicks on secondary, smaller blades.

Being right handed, I like my nicks on the side of the blade facing me when held in my left hand with the pivot to my right, i.e. stockmen with both clip and sheepfoot pulls on the mark side.

I don't care for double pulls, where the second one is near the tip and in the swedge. It spoils the looks and isn't necessary, anyway. Pulls on both sides of the blade might be interesting, though (would match nicely with Campbell's double shields).

OK, I'm done. You all jump right in, especially you knifemakers. Thanks, in advance.

 

[Pipeman]

I love long very thin nicks, parallel to the back and I really love long nicks that run into the tang. I have been collecting old German whittlers lately, i very much like the heavy wedge shape they used on their Master spear blades with a wide back that extends to about half the length of the blade. LOVE big swedges.

Best regards

Robin

 

[knarfeng]

I'm not a collector, so I don't know as my opinion counts, but, as long as I can get the blade open I have no preferences. (I've had knives with overly shallow nicks and nicks cut at a poor angle so that the blade was hard to open. )

 

[KnifeHead]

me thinks you've been spoiled by some well known custom makers, shall I say....artistic swagger.

That said, the placement of nicks in old, old knives seem to have been done in much the same manner but rarely with the accuracy of a modern custom. Today they are part of the functional art of a custom slip joint, when done "right". Nick placement becomes trickier with the addition of blades and then swedges become key in being able to open blades as well.

Nicks on both sides? Risky business unless the blades are thick enough to "pull it off", no pun intended. If one isn't careful, you could end up with a Scagel see-thru nick, which is ok, I recon.

How do the production companies fare at aligning nicks in a aesthetically pleasing manner?

 

[jackknife]

I have to agree that a long pull is nice. My old Buck stockman has a long pull, and I like it.

My main complaint is the modern nail nicks are sometimes too shallow. If I'm going to have to put up with a standard crescent nicks, then at least make it a nice deep one that a thumbnail can get a good grip in.

Yeah!

Carl.

 

[RichardRogers]

If crescent nicks are used, they should either be parallel to the top edge of the blade, or to the top edge of the handle when closed.

I think crescent nicks look best when they are parallel to the bottom of the swedge. Plus they should be high on the blade, they look awful if you get them too low.

 

[KnifeHead]

I think crescent nicks look best when they are parallel to the bottom of the swedge. Plus they should be high on the blade, they look awful if you get them too low.

I'll second that, although I have seen some old knives with the nicks slightly into the swedges that I fancied as well. And yes, they should be as high as practical.

 

[black mamba]

Here's a couple great looking examples of long pulls from Northfield GEC and Schatt & Morgan.

High on the spine, evenly spaced between swedge and tang, deep, attractive and useful.

Here's a poor example from Queen City Cutlery. Angled wrong and too close to spine.

A nice crescent nick from Buck-- large, deep and symmetrical.

 

[Rick]

I like well executed long pulls that are parallel to (and the 'right' distance from) the spine and have relatively uniform depth and a clean start and end. The space between the end of the pull and the swedge is an inportant visual factor as well. I've seen quite a few old knives where the swedge runs right over the pull, which looks like hell.

This old Remington is guilty as charged:

Whereas this one is dead-nut:

I think I actually like the crisp sharp-cornered look of a stamped long pull better than some custom pulls that were cut with a large radius - go figure . Of the all the factory slipjoint makers, GEC's long pulls are, IMO, the nicest, but their regular nail nicks occasionally show up a bit skewed.

Standard nail nicks are fine if the depth, position, size and angle are effective and aesthetically pleasing. I'm often amazed at the number of custom slipjoint makers who can grind a great blade and then pooch the thing with a poorly implemented nail nick. I've seen some real deal-breakers out there on otherwise nice custom knives.

 

[J. Oeser]

I actually like the look of a well executed long pull but I do find that my fingernail gets caught or wedged in the groove especially if the spring is a little extra strong. When the blade snaps open to the half stop the long pull sheers off part of my fingernail. Now I could just have wimpy nails, who knows. So functionally I prefer a nice deep nail nick where the rounded bottom angles down. What would be interesting would be a long pull where the bottom edge had a slight angle down eliminating my problem. Might be a difficult job to execute.

 

[Will Power]

Longpulls are, when placed correctly, unbeatable. See Mamba's pictures of a GEC and Schatt for instance. However, don't really see them working so well-visually-on Wharncliffes .I like side by side nicks but they appear to be getting less common, Zerogee pointed out in another thread, that they are more difficult to construct. Still, I have a Queen Cutlery Serp Jack and a lowly RR Gunstock with them and they look and perform admirably.

Crescents need to be deeply struck/wide enough to be useful. The siting of them can depend on the action of the knife,its spring tension playing a key role. Get it too far back with a tough spring and it will be hell to open.

Not that keen on Matchpulls but they can be alright. See no point in them. I've seen two pulls on the same blade, a Longpull and Crescent, looks outlandish to me.

 

[kamagong]

I don't have many opinions on nicks myself. I agree with William though on the double pulls, they look clownish IMO.

 

[ken erickson]

The creation and placement of pulls are one of the toughest aspects in the construction of a handmade slipjoint IMHO. I , like many makers, have gone through a metamorphosis when it comes to pulls. I have always put long pulls in using a cutter before heat treat. The first ones were cut in with a 3 inch dia. slitting cutter that left the ends with a long radius. I now use 3 different 1/2 cutters in different widths depending on the pattern that leaves a very "tight" radius, much more like a stamped pull but with the clean look that stamping can not achieve. I used to install my crescent pulls by grinding after heat treat with a shaped grinding wheel on my surface grinder. A very except-able pull but just not quite "right". I started fly cutting crescent pulls in about year ago. The big benefits are a very crisp, clean, secure pull that grinding just can not duplicate. This method leaves the cut part of the pull dark colored. Grinding will leave them bright. The downside to cutting before heat treat is that placement is critical.

Here are a few pictures of past pulls.(None of these knives are available.)

This coffin jack has two different width long pulls cut through the tangs

This pull was cut in with a fly cutter and while the pull is just what I wanted, it could have been placed at a bit more of an angle to match the swedge line.

This pull is thin, and very close to the spine

This pull was ground in, pre-heat treat.

This was a pull on a proto-type pattern for me, that was a tad "off" in its placement

This large jack had double pulls on mark side of master. The crescent would have looked better if fly-cut versus ground IMHO

I think the placement on the secondary is too far forward on this knife.


I feel also that the nail pull , location, execution can "make or break" the overall look and functionality of a slipjoint.

Ken

 

[LKJW]

I never thought much about pulls before. Except the ones that always bug me. And they are usually too shallow. Rather than repeat everything BM said in the first post, I pretty much agree, but as long as it works, like I said, never gave it much thought before. The only aesthetic consideration I ever recall making is that I like long pulls.

 

[dannyp]

I agree with pretty much everything you said Jeff. Nail nicks and pulls should definitely be parallel to the spine when possible. They should also be in a spot that doesn't require notching one of the scales to access them as well. Match striker pulls look good but I find that they have a tendency to get gunked up easier and are harder to clean out.

I also agree that on a jack knife they should be on the same side, but my reason is different. I cut left handed while I have more strength in my right. Since I hold the knife in my left hand and open it with my right I end up naturally reaching for the secondary blade if it's on the pile side. I would rather they both be on the wrong side so I hold the knife and open it the same way every time.

 

[Campbellclanman]

I thought the angle of the ends of the pull on Elliots knife by Enrique Pena was quite a nice subtle touch.
I hope that I can borrow your picture of this lovely knife Elliot?

 

[okbohn]

For looks, I like long pulls, but function, I like the Scagel hole.

Looking at the knives that grace my pockets--almost all have a regular crescent nail-nick. except one that has the Scagel hole.

hmmmm....I don't know what that means.

 

[300Bucks]

I like long pulls on the main blade at least. Really on any blade with size to accept it.
Although they are out-of-date, I still like match strike pulls. I am sad to see a finger nic too close to the spine or crooked.
300Bucks/ch

 

[black mamba]

Thanks to everyone for their responses, especially Ken Erickson for his thoughtful and time consuming post.

This giving, instructive spirit is exactly what makes this subforum so great!

 

[joe-bob]

I feel also that the nail pull , location, execution can "make or break" the overall look and functionality of a slipjoint.

Ken

This is it in a nutshell. Thanks Ken.

I recently got one of the new GEC steel Sunfish and it has double pulls on the main blade. It looks kinda cool, I have to admit. However, the long pull is far too close to the pivot to be useable on this fairly stiff knife. So, my vote has to go towards functionality. I prefer the look of long pulls, but what I need in a knife is a functional nail pull, whatever the shape may be.