Recommendation? Nakiri for every-day use

[Omga4000]

Hey everyone,

I am looking to buy a nakiri (kitchen knife) for day-to-day use.
While looking around I discovered that knives are super complex and I am now pretty stuck.

I'd like to begin by selecting the steel type that would best suit me - this is where you come in!
From what I managed to find out about the steels, here are my conclusions (which may definitely be wrong, kindly correct me if they are):

Aogami#1, Aogami#2, Shirogami#1, Shirogami#2, Aogami Super​

All of those types are pretty much off-limits due to their low rust-resistance. I'm not the type who'd wipe the knife between every swipe

VG10, VG1, 19C27​

Would not be my first choice, but they seem to be great. Only thing "bad" I've read about them is they are pretty tough to sharpen.

SRS15, SRS13, SG2​

Perfect (?) for my usage from what I've read. They maintain their sharpness and are OK to sharpen.

ZDP-189​

Well what can I say.. If I could only afford it. Also seems tough to sharpen, but everything else is superb.

So what do you all think?
I have 0 experience with knives and I am looking to get into it. I wouldn't want to buy a low-mid tier knife and replace it soon. I'd rather invest a bit more and go into the high-tier (NOT top-tier) and have a knife I'd enjoy for many many years to come.

All recommendations are welcome!

Notes:
1) Since I am vegan and my diet revolves around vegetables and such, a nakiri seemed like the good choice. If you believe something else is better for this task, please speak up.

2) I do not really have a price in mind, but I hope 200$ would be enough. If I have to push it to 250$ I'd do it, but it has to justify it

Thank you,
Omga4000

 

[knarfeng]

ZDP-189 is not as corrosion resistant as I would want for a kitchen knife.

I am familiar with both VG-1 and VG-10. In my opinion, either would do nicely. If I Remember Correctly, VG-10 has superior corrosion resistance.

Never tried the others. So I shan't comment on those.

 

[Colorodo]

We have knifemakers here on the forum and they may be able to make one to your specs. https://www.bladeforums.com/forums/for-sale-kitchen-knives.890/

 

[b00n]

If you mean actual every day use, I would consider the Spyderco Spydiechef , it has LC200 Steel and a nicely designed blade shape for kitchen use, but it doubles as a nice EDC which fits in your budget. If you mean Kitchen Every day use, I leave that to others, since i don't have any experience with fancier kitchen ware.

 

[Omga4000]

ZDP-189 is not as corrosion resistant as I would want for a kitchen knife.

I am familiar with both VG-1 and VG-10. In my opinion, either would do nicely. If I Remember Correctly, VG-10 has superior corrosion resistance.

Never tried the others. So I shan't comment on those.

Really? The ZDP-189 is not very anti-corrosion? Well that's good to know.. Guess it's off as well.
VG-10 really did seem better then VG1, but since they are so tough, how hard is it to sharpen them, and how often?

We have knifemakers here on the forum and they may be able to make one to your specs. https://www.bladeforums.com/forums/for-sale-kitchen-knives.890/

Thank you!
Since I am not even sure what I am looking for, I'll save this link for later

If you mean actual every day use, I would consider the Spyderco Spydiechef , it has LC200 Steel and a nicely designed blade shape for kitchen use, but it doubles as a nice EDC which fits in your budget. If you mean Kitchen Every day use, I leave that to others, since i don't have any experience with fancier kitchen ware.

Correct - kitchen knife is what I am after!
Nakiri is a Japanese vegetable knife.

 

[BuckleBuilder]

I prefer carbon steel knives but they do require more maintenance. If you have a Williams Sonoma store or knife store near you I would recommend trying the Shun line of knives. I suggest William Sonoma because you can actually go in and try the knife on vegetables in the store . Can try them out there and probably buy them a little less elsewhere. They are all stainless clad I believe. They have several other good brands also.

 

[lieferung]

I will also second the knife makers forum. Besides the ready made items they sell there, I'm sure you could work with one of them to set up a custom build for your price range with them.

 

[KenHash]

Need to know if you want single bevel or double bevel. Traditional Wa handle or Western Yo handle.

"Aogami#1, Aogami#2, Shirogami#1, Shirogami#2, Aogami Super"
With the exception of AoS, those carbon steels are found only on Usuba Knives. A Nakiri is double beveled whereas an Usuba is the same design but single beveled. Some makers offer a double beveled Nakiri with a Wa handle but not too many. There are zillions of carbon steel Usuba knives raging from cheap to expensive, like Shigefusa. They are all traditional Japanese "wa" handles. Aritsugu Kyoto I think offers a AogamiSuper core Nakiri in their Heijoippin line.
JapaneseChefKnives I think also offer something in their house brand Kagayaki line.

Double beveled "Nakiris" usually have Western "Yo" handles and can be found in many steels.
VG1 is a shade above Aus8 which is usually sold as Molybdenum Vanadiam steel.
Most are VG10 laminated plain, Damascus, tsuchime, various finishes. The number of makers who have VG10 nakiris are many.
I use a Tojiro DP series which is VG10 laminated.

With powder steels, often labeled HSS (High Speed Steel) you have R2 (akaSG2) as the core, and this s the most common. Tojiro, Takamura, Ryusen, etc.
Only Sakon Ryga series offers a SRS15 core Nakiri. I use a R2 core Gyuto most of the time and it requires maybe 1-2 sharpenings a year. The way it holds an edge is quite remarkable and is something to consider for a heavy use knife. IN the outdoor knife world only Fallkniven offers a R2(SG2) core under their label 3G. And the edge retention is clearly above the VG10 offerings.

With other Japanese supersteels like ZDP-189, Hap40 etc you will find just a handful of makers offering them (Sukenari comes to mind) but they are all Wa handled.

 

[buffalo01]

vg10 I think would be great, excellent corrosion resistance and really easy to sharpen. I believe it was actually designed to be used for kitchen knives but I may be wrong.

 

[Beak14]

We have a Tojiro, Nakiri, in VG10, and does stain less than my Hiromoto, in AS (Aogami Super Blue). But, I've found that the Nakiri is far-less up to any, and all, tasks, than, let's say, an 8", chef's knife. For some reason, my brain really likes the 210mm chef's knife.

If you have to have a Nakiri, fine, but I surely wouldn't spend much money on one, until you know your brain's going to be happy with it. If you think the Nakiri's the end all, be all, well then...

Maybe it's me, and I haven't tried the Nakiri on enough vegetables - or fruit, for that matter?

 

[Wowbagger]

1) Since I am vegan and my diet revolves around vegetables and such, a nakiri seemed like the good choice. If you believe something else is better for this task, please speak up.

I can relate to your conscious objection to killing things and what all goes with vegan.
I just wanted to put in the back of your mind this :
I was vegetarian for more than a decade. Extremely athletic. Running long distance in the mornings (training for marathons), riding to work everyday after, lifting weights at night in the YMCA, martial arts classes until eleven at night, then ride home on the bike from that.
That was just one typical day.
I slept ten hours a day to recover and my work day was extremely light but on my feet all day.

After the normal work day I taught classes in mechanics or Yoga.
I was . . . active . . .
over the years my energy started a steady decline. I still did all this but just felt sluggish.
I ate eggs and cheese so not Vegan. I took tons of vitamins including B12
I forget why, maybe a girl friends influence, but I went back to some lean beef in my diet.
BAMMMM ! ! !
Energy came back with a vengeance.
If you start to feel too sluggish . . . maybe binge once a month or twice on some beef or at least some sardines.

PS: as far as the knife . . . buy more than one and see what YOU like. You will eventually anyway.
PPS: yes it sounds like ZDP-189 isn't for you ( I love the stuff) but don't be afraid of VG-10 it isn't hard to sharpen and makes a great knife steel. I have it in my Grail, though I use daily at work much more durable alloys like M4 and ZDP.
Grail =


PPPS: and you won't be able to sharpen worth a dang without regular doses of chocolate cake and that means eggs and butter. The chances of being able to sharpen without this is slim to none.
Oh man . . . I don't know . . . good luck with this . . .

 

[brownshoe]

I have no problem with ZDP in the kitchen, although mine is clad in stainless. But I use two carbon steel knives in the kitchen as well with no problems. It gets a ptotective patina pretty quick and rust can readily be removed with the ever present kitchen scrubby. I have a VG10 as well,it woufks fine, but good old Forschner steel gets tge job done too.

 

[jbarsquat]

If you’re not going to be careful with it, acidic fruits and vegetables will corrode zdp189 fast. VG10 and AEBL are very low maintenance, hold a good edge, and are pretty easy to keep sharp IF you don’t dull them badly between touchups

 

[KenHash]

We have a Tojiro, Nakiri, in VG10, and does stain less than my Hiromoto, in AS (Aogami Super Blue).

I have both as well. My Hiromoto AS has a dark patina all along the cutting edge. Plus you can see it in the center of the spine as well. But the Stainless cladding keeps it completely stain free.

 

[Beak14]

I have both as well. My Hiromoto AS has a dark patina all along the cutting edge. Plus you can see it in the center of the spine as well. But the Stainless cladding keeps it completely stain free.

I love how that edge looks, with that patina! I went back, to buy another Hiromoto, and I found out that he had died. So, no more Hiromoto's, I guess. "Don't touch my Hiromoto," I have to tell my wife.

 

[jc57]

I have a Shun Classic 6.5" Nakiri that I really like using on veggies. VG-MAX steel, which is Shun's proprietary variant of VG-10.

 

[Omga4000]

Wooooow so many answers. Thank you all very much!

I'll just post this up-top so everyone could see, and then I'll answer everyone personally.
I live in Israel, and quality kitchen knives are not really a thing here. This Israeli site is the only one I could find, and these are all of the Nakiri's which are available:
https://www.japanese-knives.co.il/product-category/nakiri/?orderby=price

These are what I considered to be my options from this site:
1) https://www.japanese-knives.co.il/product/ymw_nakiri_vg10_165_wh1/
It's a Yamawaki (Sakai) VG-10 Nakiri. This one is about 185$.
2) https://www.japanese-knives.co.il/product/ymw_nakiri_srs15_165/
It's a Yamawaki (Sakai) SRS-15 Nakiri. This one is about 280$.

Thanks to BuckleBuilder , William Sonoma is also an option. They ship to Israel.

Ideas?

I prefer carbon steel knives but they do require more maintenance. If you have a Williams Sonoma store or knife store near you I would recommend trying the Shun line of knives. I suggest William Sonoma because you can actually go in and try the knife on vegetables in the store . Can try them out there and probably buy them a little less elsewhere. They are all stainless clad I believe. They have several other good brands also.

Unfortunately, I do not really have any knife shop in my country (Israel).
But - I looked at William Sonoma's site and they do ship to Israel, so that's an option!
https://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/shun-kaji-hollow-ground-nakiri-knife/?cm_src=E:cleavers
This one would total 240$ including the shipping. What do you think? Is it better than the Yamawaki (Sakai)?

I will also second the knife makers forum. Besides the ready made items they sell there, I'm sure you could work with one of them to set up a custom build for your price range with them.

When I finally decide what is best for me, I may go that way. Thank you for the additional recommendation!

Need to know if you want single bevel or double bevel. Traditional Wa handle or Western Yo handle.

"Aogami#1, Aogami#2, Shirogami#1, Shirogami#2, Aogami Super"
With the exception of AoS, those carbon steels are found only on Usuba Knives. A Nakiri is double beveled whereas an Usuba is the same design but single beveled. Some makers offer a double beveled Nakiri with a Wa handle but not too many. There are zillions of carbon steel Usuba knives raging from cheap to expensive, like Shigefusa. They are all traditional Japanese "wa" handles. Aritsugu Kyoto I think offers a AogamiSuper core Nakiri in their Heijoippin line.
JapaneseChefKnives I think also offer something in their house brand Kagayaki line.

Double beveled "Nakiris" usually have Western "Yo" handles and can be found in many steels.
VG1 is a shade above Aus8 which is usually sold as Molybdenum Vanadiam steel.
Most are VG10 laminated plain, Damascus, tsuchime, various finishes. The number of makers who have VG10 nakiris are many.
I use a Tojiro DP series which is VG10 laminated.

With powder steels, often labeled HSS (High Speed Steel) you have R2 (akaSG2) as the core, and this s the most common. Tojiro, Takamura, Ryusen, etc.
Only Sakon Ryga series offers a SRS15 core Nakiri. I use a R2 core Gyuto most of the time and it requires maybe 1-2 sharpenings a year. The way it holds an edge is quite remarkable and is something to consider for a heavy use knife. IN the outdoor knife world only Fallkniven offers a R2(SG2) core under their label 3G. And the edge retention is clearly above the VG10 offerings.

With other Japanese supersteels like ZDP-189, Hap40 etc you will find just a handful of makers offering them (Sukenari comes to mind) but they are all Wa handled.

Double bevel, Yo handle. That's at least what I think would be best for me, but then again I have never tried a Wa handle.
Are there any benefits/disadvantages to any of those?

You have strengthened my trust in SRS-15/SG-2, so thank you for that
They are pretty expensive though. Are they worth the additional price, or would a VG-10 be more than enough?

vg10 I think would be great, excellent corrosion resistance and really easy to sharpen. I believe it was actually designed to be used for kitchen knives but I may be wrong.

Thank you for the help!
Do you personally own a VG-10? Mind sharing your experience?

We have a Tojiro, Nakiri, in VG10, and does stain less than my Hiromoto, in AS (Aogami Super Blue). But, I've found that the Nakiri is far-less up to any, and all, tasks, than, let's say, an 8", chef's knife. For some reason, my brain really likes the 210mm chef's knife.

If you have to have a Nakiri, fine, but I surely wouldn't spend much money on one, until you know your brain's going to be happy with it. If you think the Nakiri's the end all, be all, well then...

Maybe it's me, and I haven't tried the Nakiri on enough vegetables - or fruit, for that matter?

I have always used a chef's knife and I have never used a Nakiri before
The reason I am looking for a Nakiri is simply because this is what I understand is best for vegetables, and this is most of my diet.
I definitely don't HAVE to get a Nakiri, but it seemed like the logical choice. Is there any specific reason why I shouldn't? Just comfort preferences?

I can relate to your conscious objection to killing things and what all goes with vegan.
I just wanted to put in the back of your mind this :
I was vegetarian for more than a decade. Extremely athletic. Running long distance in the mornings (training for marathons), riding to work everyday after, lifting weights at night in the YMCA, martial arts classes until eleven at night, then ride home on the bike from that.
That was just one typical day.
I slept ten hours a day to recover and my work day was extremely light but on my feet all day.

After the normal work day I taught classes in mechanics or Yoga.
I was . . . active . . .
over the years my energy started a steady decline. I still did all this but just felt sluggish.
I ate eggs and cheese so not Vegan. I took tons of vitamins including B12
I forget why, maybe a girl friends influence, but I went back to some lean beef in my diet.
BAMMMM ! ! !
Energy came back with a vengeance.
If you start to feel too sluggish . . . maybe binge once a month or twice on some beef or at least some sardines.

PS: as far as the knife . . . buy more than one and see what YOU like. You will eventually anyway.
PPS: yes it sounds like ZDP-189 isn't for you ( I love the stuff) but don't be afraid of VG-10 it isn't hard to sharpen and makes a great knife steel. I have it in my Grail, though I use daily at work much more durable alloys like M4 and ZDP.
Grail =
View attachment 856488
View attachment 856489
PPPS: and you won't be able to sharpen worth a dang without regular doses of chocolate cake and that means eggs and butter. The chances of being able to sharpen without this is slim to none.
Oh man . . . I don't know . . . good luck with this . . .
View attachment 856490

Well veganism is a different talk, but noted

PS: If I could afford multiple I would definitely do it, but I can't.
PPS: VG-10 is also cheaper, which is great! I would consider it, unless the SRS-15/SG-2 have any obvious benefit.
PPPS: I have made pretty awesome cakes that even non-vegan/non-vegetarians have adored. I am not afraid of that

Thanks mate!

I have no problem with ZDP in the kitchen, although mine is clad in stainless. But I use two carbon steel knives in the kitchen as well with no problems. It gets a ptotective patina pretty quick and rust can readily be removed with the ever present kitchen scrubby. I have a VG10 as well,it woufks fine, but good old Forschner steel gets tge job done too.

Which one would you recommend? I can't afford the ZDP at all, but just curious. Is it that much better than the VG-10?

If you’re not going to be careful with it, acidic fruits and vegetables will corrode zdp189 fast. VG10 and AEBL are very low maintenance, hold a good edge, and are pretty easy to keep sharp IF you don’t dull them badly between touchups

Yup that's what I read... And I really don't think I'll invest much into the maintenance, so it's pretty off-limits..
Thanks for the verification

I have a Shun Classic 6.5" Nakiri that I really like using on veggies. VG-MAX steel, which is Shun's proprietary variant of VG-10.

Take a look at what I wrote at the top and my reply to BuckleBuilder .
I would love to hear your opinion as well

Thank you all again!!

 

[BuckleBuilder]

Unfortunately, I do not really have any knife shop in my country (Israel).
But - I looked at William Sonoma's site and they do ship to Israel, so that's an option!
https://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/shun-kaji-hollow-ground-nakiri-knife/?cm_src=E:cleavers
This one would total 240$ including the shipping. What do you think? Is it better than the Yamawaki (Sakai)?




I think any of the Shun Knives or the other brands you mentioned will be light years ahead of anything you’ve ever had and you will be very satisfied. If you’re going to order and can’t lay hands on a particular knife, you might also consider eBay. You will likely have a seller close to you and often times the prices are very competitive.
Just my opinion. Hope it helps. Lot of good answers and a lot of thinking to do.

 

[Omga4000]

I think any of the Shun Knives or the other brands you mentioned will be light years ahead of anything you’ve ever had and you will be very satisfied. If you’re going to order and can’t lay hands on a particular knife, you might also consider eBay. You will likely have a seller close to you and often times the prices are very competitive.
Just my opinion. Hope it helps. Lot of good answers and a lot of thinking to do.

I read eBay is kind of dangerous for high-quality knife ordering. Many fake stuff out there

 

[KenHash]

"KenHash said: ↑
Need to know if you want single bevel or double bevel. Traditional Wa handle or Western Yo handle."

>Double bevel, Yo handle. That's at least what I think would be best for me, but then again I have never tried a Wa handle.
>Are there any benefits/disadvantages to any of those?

Traditional Japanese knives are single bevel and wa handled. These types, Yanagiba, Deba, Usuba etc are collectively called Wa-Bouchou (Japanese knife). The Gyuto, Santoku, Nakiri are all double beveled and western handled called Yo-Bouhou (Western knife). There are the few odd exceptions but the above is basically true. I personally use Wa handled Deba and Yanagiba for fish. But I use my Western handled Gyuto and Petty for most other things, and sometimes the Nakiri. I don't think there is any clear advantage/disadvantage in the handles. The biggest difference is the carbon steels that require more attentive drying after use.

>You have strengthened my trust in SRS-15/SG-2, so thank you for that
>They are pretty expensive though. Are they worth the additional price, or would a VG-10 be more than enough?

VG10 is a vey good kitchen knife material. And I am satisfied with it as I don't use my Nakiri anywhere near my Gyuto and Petty.But I know that the Powder steels/HSS - SG2and SRS15 retain their sharpness much longer, and if I knew I was going to be using one knife a lot, I would consider the powder steels. One thing I noted is that from your response post you showed a SRS15 nakiri priced at $280 which is considerably higher than what I would have expected. That is double what the price would be in the U.S.

This shop ships to Israel. And you don't get the silly looking dragon on the blade
https://www.mtckitchen.com/sakon-ryuga-powdered-steel-nakiri-knife-165mm-6-5/