Natural Stones

Plain high carbon steel even if it is quite hard (up in the 60s HRC) is at home on natural stones.
The trouble comes when you get into the "super" steels or what is called high alloy steel.
Heck even A2 which isn't all that "super" tends to polish a hard Arkansas stone rather than be polished BY the stone.

Some people can finesse the finish on the natural stones to perform on the alloy steels.
or
some people add diamond abrasive to the surface of the natural stones to fudge.

There are some YouTube vids on doing this.
Personally I prefer to go to the Manmade Engineered stones for the more complex steel alloys and or use the diamond stones.

For say Case Pocket knives or nice Japanese kitchen knives in the steel that will rust (Plain High Carbon Steel) the natural stones are really great.
 
Simple stainless can be sharpened on them. Also, straight razors and double edge blades. DM
 
My rule of thumb for natural stones says they'll work for anything less wear-resistant than a steel like 440C. They'll struggle with 440C and anything else more wear-resistant (440C, 154CM/ATS-34, D2, S30V, etc.).

The grit in natural stones is much less hard than the chromium carbide, tungsten carbide, vanadium carbide, etc., found in more wear-resistant steels. Some low-alloy stainless, like 420HC or 440A, will still have some very small amount of chromium carbides. But it's minimal enough in these steels, it really doesn't get in the way of sharpening on natural stones. They'll still grind slower than a simple carbon steel like 1095 or CV, but they're still doable on natural stones.

Simple carbon steels like 1095 or CV have essentially none of that hard carbide content. So, they respond much better to natural stones, producing great finished edges and grinding pretty fast on those as well. Sharpening these steels on natural stones can be a pleasure.
 
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Aerosmith, in using these stones, get the Washita. Which is the most coarse of the Arkansas stones at 500 grit. This will give you a nice edge for a kitchen knife. Especially after working it on something like a Norton India stone. I've had decent success sharpening steels up to 425M on a washita. DM
 
Anything low-carbide basically. Even chromium carbides are enough to make them really struggle.
 
To give some specifics, some of the steels I currently can and/or do run on my Arkansas stones are:

420HC
8Cr13MoV
AUS8
12C27N
Whustof's and Henckel's stainless formulations
VG10
BD1
BD1N - Sits at ~61HRC but is nitrogen based. Not ideal on the Arkansas but not an issue either.

I'm missing soem but those are pretty good examples.

For a while I had myself convinced I could get a good edge with S30V, S35VN, S90V, etc. I was wrong and in retrospect really just defending my love of Arkansas stones and displaying an ignorant unwillingness to change.

I still love my Arkansas stones. I don't many of the "super steel" knives so I don't have too many issues. That said, I've grown extremely fond of a 300grit diamond and a fine India stone. :)
 
You CAN get an edge on a carbide forming steel if you're only just doing the last little bit of finishing but the edge won't be as clean or as durable as if you used a diamond or CBN abrasive. Not worth the effort IMO. Better to do it the right way - unless a natural stone is your only option. They are great for pain carbon steels though.
 
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Eli Chaps said:
To give some specifics, some of the steels I currently can and/or do run on my Arkansas stones are:

420HC
8Cr13MoV
AUS8
12C27N
Whustof's and Henckel's stainless formulations
VG10
BD1
BD1N - Sits at ~61HRC but is nitrogen based. Not ideal on the Arkansas but not an issue either.
Click to expand...
I've found that 8Cr13MoV to be highly variable on Arkansas stones. I suspect a combination of iffy metallurgy and questionable heat treatment.
BD1 felt kind of gummy. Sharpened very fast and fine though.
 
Trying to keep your steels in the range of what natural stones can handle is a mistake imo. Diamonds work fine. And you don't need a slew of them to keep your knives cutting.
 
eKretz said:
You CAN get an edge on a carbide forming steel if you're only just doing the last little bit of finishing but the edge won't be as clean or as durable as if you used a diamond or CBN abrasive. Not worth the effort IMO. Better to do it the right way - unless a natural stone is your only option. They are great for pain carbon steels though.
Click to expand...
Hi,
What is the source of not "as clean" or "as durable" ?
 
bucketstove said:
Hi,
What is the source of not "as clean" or "as durable" ?
Click to expand...

Microscope examination of my own edges (240x) made this way. Depending on the carbides involved, the edges can be pretty ragged after sharpening on abrasive other than diamond or CBN (hereafter called superabrasives). If you don't have the capability to see them up close, you never know what kind of edge you're actually producing - unless you use a superabrasive - they will cut anything. Tungsten carbides especially seem to be very easy to pull out of a steel matrix. If you don't get a good clean edge the edge-holding is definitely not as good in my experience.
 
bucketstove said:
Hi,
What is "a good edge"?
What changed your opinion?
Is this a good edge?
Sharpening Spyderco PM 2 in CPM S30V steel with Norton India and Translucent Arkansas stones - Stefan Wolf
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Doing a final honing on a black Arkansas was alright but trying to go from dull to sharp on a soft Arkansas to start out was doing more to my stones than to the knives. Yes, if they weren't too bad I could get an edge and that's why I defended it but when I switched to diamonds I was much happier and it was much faster.
 
Yes, I agree in the areas of removing metal and getting a sharp edge quickly.
But something I enjoy about having these Arkansas stones is, I can get them in sizes I don't find with other grits. For instance I have a 4"X 8"
washita that I really enjoy working a blade on this size stone and I'll apply diamond slurry to it which helps. I wish I had a 2 grit SiC stone this
size. DM
 
eKretz said:
Depending on the carbides involved, the edges can be pretty ragged after sharpening on abrasive other than diamond . . . If you don't get a good clean edge the edge-holding is definitely not as good in my experience.
Click to expand...

I second that.
I have proved this to my self over and over with S110V !
I am talking actual long term cutting performance; the edges sharpened on say Shapton Glass are not nearly as long lasting as edges sharpened and refined on diamond grit stones.

Silicon Carbide is the exception, it is sort of hard enough to sharpen these knives. There are a few top shelf knife dudes here that recommend it. I haven't spent enough time with that specific combination yet to comment. That and they are going for toothy and I'm a polished edge addict.
 
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