Need feedback from EdgePro Apex users

bh49

bh49

Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
3,817
Hey guys. I am thinking about getting EdgePro Apex on and off for a couple years at least. I read several threads on forums, watched few youtube videos. Still didn’t make a decision and have few concerns. May be long term users can help me.
I am using sharpmaker to maintain my knives. Even with coarse stones (I have up to 120 grit moldmaster from Congress Tool and use them dry) in addition to a standard set it takes really long time to reprofile or repair. Also I cannot get even edges. So I would like to get a tool, which will help me to do better and faster reprofiling and repair job. I am still planning to use sharpmaker to maintain knives. For various reasons I do not consider paper wheels or Wicked edge.
Few of my concerns:
1. Cost.
Like for most of us cost is a concern and I want to spend as lees as possible. But if I buy the system, I will buy everything what I need to do a job to reach my goals. I am thinking about getting first set, which is about $165 and comes with two coarse stones. If I will need to add more stones, planning to add Congress Tool moldmasters. What accessories I will need in addition to the set. I read about drill or shaft collors, sound very useful. Would I need angle cube as well? Will I need anything else?

2 Cleanness or messiness.
I do not have “work room” in my house, so I will have to use Edge Pro on the kitchen or bathroom couters. I would like to replace waterstones with congress moldmasters almost right away and sharpen dry, if possible. Does anybody use congress stones dry with EdgePro? I know that Jin Ankerson is using moldmaster, but I am not sure if he is using them dry or with any lubricant. How messy original EdgePro. I saw youtube video with set-up of Edge-pro in the cookie tray. I like the idea, still would like, if possible to use moldmasters.

Thank you in advance.
 
Hello bh!

I really identify with your concerns! I am blessed with a rather large bathroom counter in my otherwise tiny apartment. It's where I do all of my sharpening now. The light is great in there, and I can just wipe off the counter with a damp sponge or some TP when I am done. it works great! I haven't tried the Moldmasters yet, but for dry sharpening on hard steels, I use DMT diamond stones - they work great, but you have to remember not to use too much pressure or your risk tearing the diamonds out of their nickel bonding. I am curious about trying some SiC stones that have a much softer bonding than the Moldmasters (Congress Tools "Regular" or "Extra Soft" stones). I think these would work much better than the Moldmasters for quick cutting, though they would have to be used wet (not a problem in the bathroom). I hope that someone who actually uses the Moldmasters will be able to give you more input.

If you are worried about cost, I would try to get some nice, thick, large grit stones from Congress Tools and use them for re-profiling without any backing (hence the need for thicker stones for durability), and get some finer-grit stones for polishing - the Flex stones seem highly-regarded for polishing. Again, I haven't used any of the Congress stones, so these are just ideas. You will NEED either a drill stop collar or angle measurement tool of some sort. I consider these absolutely necessarry, even when using all Edge Pro equipment. There is just no other way to be confident about your angles and the consistency between stones - even the Edge Pro stones come in two different thicknesses. The two coarsest stones are cut thicker than the finer stones. Even the 220 stone and the 400 stone that come with the Apex 1 kit are two different thicknesses. Ben should really raise the price of each kit by a dollar and include a drill stop collar in each one, or do it for free since the kits are already overpriced, IMHO.

By the way, the polishing strips and glass blank are a revelation for the Edge Pro. You may want to look into adding these when you are ready - just make sure you have an edge that is prepped for them on an EP 1000 stone or a Congress Flex 600 stone first.
 
Don't know about the moldmasters dry,,, but stick the EP in a pyrex baking dish,,, and you can sharpen just about anywhere.

EP_DMT01.jpg


It's heavy enough to hold it... on a slick surface you can use a non skid pad or even a damp towel to hold it in place. Contains all the mess... won't even know you were there when done. :)
 
cbwx34 said:
Don't know about the moldmasters dry,,, but stick the EP in a pyrex baking dish,,,

It's heavy enough to hold it... on a slick surface you can use a non skid pad or even a damp towel to hold it in place.
Click to expand...

Awesome! Stability has been my chief concern in using a tray.
 
sharpandsafe said:
I use DMT diamond stones - they work great
Click to expand...
Do you use DMT with EdgePro or freehand?
Over years I used several Congress stones: ruby, moldmaster, flex, regular and probably few more. I found ruby to be fastest. They are aluminum oxide. I used them only with VG10 and S30V
cbwx34 said:
Don't know about the moldmasters dry,,, but stick the EP in a pyrex baking dish,,, and you can sharpen just about anywhere.
EP_DMT01.jpg

It's heavy enough to hold it... on a slick surface you can use a non skid pad or even a damp towel to hold it in place. Contains all the mess... won't even know you were there when done. :)
Click to expand...
Thanks for info. I am planning to use something similar. It is nice to know, that it will contain the mess. Otherwise my wife will kick me out in a second.
 
bh49 said:
Do you use DMT with EdgePro or freehand?
Click to expand...

The fist sharpening rig I got was the DMT aligner. I use the "stones" from that system, mounted on the EP Apex. I think they are 4" by 7/8" in size. They are a little short, but work okay and are cost-competitive with the EP stones. You will need to get a spring to go between the knob on the EP Apex's arm and the stone clamp to take up the extra room. I thought about getting some of the double-sided DMT Diafold stones and somehow cutting off the end with the hinged handles to save a few bucks over individual Aligner stones, but I haven't tried it yet.

bh49 said:
I am planning to use something similar. It is nice to know, that it will contain the mess. Otherwise my wife will kick me out in a second.
Click to expand...

Ahh, I see. Just make sure you don't use your wife's favorite baking dish for this! Might be a better bet to go to some thrift stores to find your own. :)
 
I sharpen with my EPA on my kitchen island. As to the cleanliness, I eat there often as well. Shouldn't be too much of a cleanliness issue.

Second, just spend the money one time and be done with it. Don't scrimp here. While the EPA is a tool, just like your knives, it would be wise to treat it as an investment; much like gun guys treat specialized cleaning and gunsmithing equipment.

It is a great system that has a 20-30 blade learning curve. After you get the hang of it (and if I can, so can you) it is wonderful and you'll question how you got by without one before.
 
I use my EdgePro on the kitchen table too, with a small washcloth/shop towel on either side and underneath. No mess when I'm done. Pick up the cloths and wipe off the EdgePro and you'd never know I was there.


Stitchawl
 
Guys,
Thank you for replies.
I think that I will be OK with cleanness and will not be kicked out to a dog house.
How high in grits do you go?
 
bh49 said:
Guys,

How high in grits do you go?
Click to expand...

Well, so far I am going up to 3000 grit polishing tapes or using a DMT xtra xtra fine hone, which is about the same (3 micron) and seeing improvement at each step, but I have recently embraced the idea that I am just refining a burr or wire edge at each stage after setting the edge bevel, and I need to work on burr reduction on the coarser grit stones rather than working up to ultra-fine grits.

A lot of folks seem to like the results they get off the EP 600 grit stone and choose to stop there most of the time. I can imagine that results off this stone could be very good if the burr is controlled/removed effectively, but I am not there yet :(

You may want to add a 600-grit stone to what you plan to order, or get a 600-grit Flex stone from Congress and then decide what else you might need later on, when finances allow.
 
The Edge Pro Apex turned me from zero to hero. I'm too stupid to use a Sharpmaker, but I can still get sick results the Edge Pro.

IMG_0360.jpg


IMG_0303.jpg
 
bh49 said:
Guys,
Thank you for replies.
I think that I will be OK with cleanness and will not be kicked out to a dog house.
How high in grits do you go?
Click to expand...

Here is my opinion, but if you want to stay within your $165 price range, then that is up to you.

If you buy set #2, it includes a 220 grit stone as well as a 320 grit stone.
In my experience with my Edge Pro, I can get my blades up to the sharpness I need usually with just a 220 grit stone. How long it holds up, I dont know. I always experiment with paper cutting after I finish on the 220 grit and it cuts it like butter. So if your only objective is to sharpen your knife, this set #2 could potentially work for you. It also comes with the ceramic hone which is pretty useful if you dont have a leather one.

Set #3 comes with 120 grit, 220 grit, 320 grit, 600 grit, 1000 grit as well as the ceramic hone.
Set #4 comes with 120, 220, 400, 600, 1000 and two sets of fifteen polishing tapes that allow you to sharpen at 2000 and 3000 grit.

I have Set #4 and I am very happy with it because I put value in how shiny my edge is. Mirror edges are extremely easy to learn to achieve even with just the 1000 grit stone, but with the 2000 and 3000 grit polishing tapes, it is way too easy.. Set #4 goes a bit overboard in my opinion, so I suggest for your sake, to go for Set #3. That way you wont have to upgrade your stones either and can still get that very refined shiny edge. I find the stock stones that they give you work pretty fast and well, but I havent tried others that you guys are talking about.
 
I have the set #3 and so far it is just short of perfect. Besides some minor learning curves this system is great. I now wish I had got the polishing tapes but the 1000 grit puts a mirror edge one so I just can't imagine how the 2000 and 3000 tapes do.
 
Guys,
Thank you for all info and your opinions.
The thing I am trying to figure out, if I need anything above 600 grit. Polished edge certainly looks great and excel in push cuts, but I am afraid that, if you need to slice, it will just slide.
Currently I am using sharpmaker. In-addition to a standard set (600 &1200 grit) I have UF rods(2000 grit). When I sharpen S30V and S35N I usually stop at 600, with VG10, especially on my kitchen knives I go up to 1200. I stopped using UF rods a while ago.
Probably only time and usage will tell, if I will need a higher grit stones, which I will be able to get later.
How do you take wear out stones from blanks and what glue do you use to glue new stones?
 
bh49 said:
Probably only time and usage will tell, if I will need a higher grit stones, which I will be able to get later.
How do you take wear out stones from blanks and what glue do you use to glue new stones?
Click to expand...

Like I said, you can get good results with the 600 grit stone. The polished edge will require the 1000 grit stone and stropping.

You can flatten the stones with a little SiC grit or wet/dry sandpaper on a piece of glass, or just don't worry about it and replace the stones when they get dished. You can remove the old stones in boiling water and attach new stones to the blanks with 3M 77 spray adhesive, just as the original stones were.
 
how are you cutting paper with the 220 stone I can't do that until at 600, and on my buck knives its polished and still wont cut paper lol
 
I stop at 600 for kitchen knives and use the ceramic rod to finish. Everything else i go all the way to mirror. I say go for the apex 4. You will not regret it!
 
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