Need Help Identifying This Sword

N

NagaRyu

Joined
Aug 3, 2021
Messages
5
I need some help from someone who has good knowledge on WWII era officers swords. To the best of my own understanding, I'm guessing this is a mass-produced Shin-gunto. I base this on the leather covered black saya and the look of the ornate sarute. It allegedly belonged to a sergeant who carried it in WWII. I wish I had better, more close-up shots of the blade but this is not my sword. Any insight anyone can provide is much appreciated.

ibb.co

Sword1 hosted at ImgBB

Image Sword1 in Photomojo's images album
ibb.co ibb.co
 
Well it does seem to have shin gunto mounts however that kissaki (blade tip) looks suspicious (it could just be photographic foreshortening). Can you provide a better shot of the blade tip straight on rather than at an angle? Have you taken the handle off? R Rich S could probably provide better insight than I on this one as well... so we'll see if he wanders by...
 
Triton said:
Well it does seem to have shin gunto mounts however that kissaki (blade tip) looks suspicious (it could just be photographic foreshortening). Can you provide a better shot of the blade tip straight on rather than at an angle? Have you taken the handle off? R Rich S could probably provide better insight than I on this one as well... so we'll see if he wanders by...
Click to expand...
No- like I said, this isn't my sword. I'm just trying to get some info on it. The owner is making some lofty claims about it that seems a little sketchy. I got it wrong- he says it belonged to a Japanese "Field General" who used it in combat in the Philippines during WWII because officers didn't carry guns, they just carried their trusty "samurai swords." To my knowledge there is no such rank as "Field General" in the WWII Japanese military and I find the notion of a general of any kind in battle in the Philippine islands with just a sword a bit unlikely. He justifies the filthy blade as not being cleaned because he wants to preserve the "blood rust" on it. I'm not an expert, but my limited knowledge on these swords lead me to believe it's a machine made shin gunto he's inflating as a grand warrior artifact. He claims the nakago is signed and that's proof it's hand-forged by a swords smith but refuses to show this signature. It could be just a factory stamp for all I know. I'll post more photos. But he's refusing close-ups of the blade.
 
Buy the sword not the story. If he wants to make an outlandish claim then it should be backed up by irrefutable evidence, like solid provenance. It is far from promising if he is unwilling to even provide decent photos of the item.

n2s
 
Well, the kissaki definitely looks better in that shot, but I am at a loss as to why you would waste any more time with this guy and his spurious stories. If you are wanting to purchase the piece... why? It doesn't appear to be anything special and it's not in great shape. If it's just to prove him wrong... again... why? Who cares about what this guy claims or thinks?
 
The fittings look "cheap", just like the Chinese NCO replica I purchased. The Chinese are cranking out an incredible array of counterfeit "vintage" Japanese swords, and it pays to look at what they are offering.

Absolutely nothing beats examining a known Japanese sword, and then comparing others against it. Pictures to not have the fidelity of having the thing in your hand.
 
You need to post better photos! Especially the nakago(tang). If it is signed, then he should not have a problem providing a photo of the mei(signature) The only way aside from an inscription on the nakago to tell if it was a Japanese officers sword, is by the tassel, which can be easily changed. Don't concern yourself with any of that "blood rust", generals sword", "grand warrior" BS, judge the sword on it's own merit. No one can accurately judge this sword from those photos.

If he has said all of that crap you are relating and refuses to show a photo of the mei, tell him to keep the damn thing. There are plenty others out there. You need to avoid this type of BS and find a reputable dealer to work with.
 
My father picked up WWII era Japanese sword at an estate auction. It was the size of a wakizashi and had drab, government issue fittings. The sword expert that he talked to in San Francisco told him that what really matters are the markings on the tang. That is all that you need to identify the provenance of an authentic Japanese sword.

My dad followed the instructions on the removal of the handle and he made a rubbing of the tang and mailed it off. This is before email and digital photos. The response was that it was a real family sword made in the 17th century and likely handed down until it was lost in WWII. The nice fittings would have been left at home.

The letter with the explanation was accompanied by an offer to purchase the sword and dad was paid $1,500 for it. This was in the late 70's. I wish that I could have coughed up the money and bought it for myself.
 
Japanese officers carried Nambu pistols and a sword. Some carried captured arms as well. I've seen a picture of a Japanese officer with a US Thompson sub machine gun.
 
Last edited:
Cloetus said:
My father picked up WWII era Japanese sword at an estate auction. It was the size of a wakizashi and had drab, government issue fittings. The sword expert that he talked to in San Francisco told him that what really matters are the markings on the tang. That is all that you need to identify the provenance of an authentic Japanese sword.

My dad followed the instructions on the removal of the handle and he made a rubbing of the tang and mailed it off. This is before email and digital photos. The response was that it was a real family sword made in the 17th century and likely handed down until it was lost in WWII. The nice fittings would have been left at home.

The letter with the explanation was accompanied by an offer to purchase the sword and dad was paid $1,500 for it. This was in the late 70's. I wish that I could have coughed up the money and bought it for myself.
Click to expand...

Interesting story, and one that happened more than once. Glad it worked out for your Dad, although if it was an important sword it would be worth many times that price today.

That said, I would note that NOT all one needs is the kanji on the nakago to positively I.d a sword. Signatures are faked today and more importantly they were faked in period. In addition important makers might have the same name or share a name with an unimportant maker. Also important swords may have no signature at all. Bernard Levine talks about “reading a knife” and that may be even more important with swords. Being able to do that takes years of experience, and the study of dozens or hundreds of blades.
 
From my recollection the smith who made the sword was reputable but not famously so. Naturally, I'm sure that it has appreciated in value since the late 70's. It was well made, nicely balanced and had a beautiful blade.
 
I had an uncle with two bringbacks from WWII. He inherited them from his father. They, somehow, ended up in his rool shed. ....

During a garage sale a man went into the shed and brought them out and tried to play off wanting to buy the "old junk"

He was told they were not for sale. The man insisted and kept offering more and more....he eventually offered 14k cash..

My uncle refused and sent him on his angry way.....the offer of a lot of cash made uncle realize he needed to move the swords inside, and that he needed to have them evaluated.

His house was burglarized right after this, and only the swords were taken (interestingly, the tool shed was also broken into and nothing was taken).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top