Need help on how to sharpen...

people don't generally start sharpening free hand right away, buy yourself the Spyderco Tri Angle Sharpener, Lansky Sharpener, DMT Guided Sharpener, when you learn the basics you move to more sophisticated sharpening methods, starting freehand would only cause frustration and mess up your knives
 
The first thing you need to do is go to the "Maintenance, Tinkering, and Embellishment" sub forum and spend 40 hours reading. You will find everything from the basics to very advanced professional tips and tricks.

The ability to sharpen is a skill I think everyone using knives should have at least to a basic level. But as you have found, it's usually not as simple as swiping a blade on a stone a few times. After a lot of reading, you will be able to return with questions that include some background of your abilities, knives, usage including your specific needs, etc.

There are so many products available from a few bucks to thousands. And engineered systems that can help speed the learning curve. I know that's not much help right now, but starting with a single stone of unspecified grit level, that didn't work with unspecified knives, doesn't give much to work with.


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People Are Strange, When You're a Stranger.
 
Remember that above anything else, it's actually a very simple concept: You're trying to bring two angles to a point. That's all. Two flat lines that come to an edge. To do this, you need:
- A consistent motion
- A consistent angle
- A flat, rigid, abrasive surface

What you're likely running into is an issue of an inconsistent motion and angle. If you drag the blade across the stone at any angle but the angle the edge was already at, you're not going to get a sharpened edge right away, but you will always eventually get a sharp edge as long as you keep the angles and motions consistent. The maintenance/tinkering forum is full of helpful links and stickied posts and helpful, informative people. Everyone has been there before, and even I have a hard time freehanding sometimes despite years of practice. Sometimes, the lighting doesn't allow you to see how the edge is resting on the stone, sometimes the force feedback never feels right, etc - it is because of the difficulties and learning curve inherent in sharpening that sharpening services and products exist.

Depending on how attached you are to the knife, you may want to get a relatively cheap knife and use it as your "sharpening practice knife" - it's also worth noting that no-name cheap knives are often made with steels that are really not that well-suited for cutlery, and are so soft that putting an edge on it by hand can be a touchy project even for someone who is pretty experienced. When I was learning, I got one of those carbide pull-through sharpeners and used that on some really cheap knives so I could practice matching a set angle. Pull it through a bunch, a lot of metal comes off, and you have a fresh edge to practice honing with.

I must mention at this point that those pull-through sharpeners are basically the worst possible way of maintaining a good edge on a knife you like. Also, if you're impatient like I am and get frustrated easily like I do, remember to stay calm, take breaks, and come back to it later when you're in a better mindset. Nobody puts a razor sharp edge on a knife because they got really frustrated and went crazy on it!
 
Hi,
What kind of cheap stainless knife (brand?length?thickness?)?
How many passes/strokes per side did you try?
What angle were you using, did you match existing angle using permanent marker/sharpie trick?
Can you hold the angle or does your hand wobble a lot?
How hard are you pressing?
If you put stone on a scale, and then knife on the stone, how many lbs or grams does the scale read?
Are you using lubrication (water)?

Please describe in detail what you do when sharpening and what happens.


One solution could be can be as simple as increasing the angle to 25 degrees
and doing 20 passes on left side, 20 passes on right side,
and checking if you can slice paper.
Repeat a 1 to 10 times until you can slice paper,
then do 10-20 alternating passes (1 left 1 right ... )
and enjoy.


You can see this guy sharpen using a 4in pocket stone like yours (and a bigger version), he uses at least 20 degrees per side angle and it only takes about four minutes
This pocket stone video also includes lapping/flattening/conditioning OPINEL NATURAL SHARPENING STONE - stefanwolf88
three step sharpening method Natural sharpening stone from Italy - stefanwolf88
Says here he uses 6lb-8lb Natural sharpening stone from Italy

Since this stone is fine grit , kinda like an arkansas stone, think about complementing it with a coarse stone , a cheap one, like a $1 dollar tree stone

Speaking of arkansas stone, some wisdom about lube choices (oil...)and best uses for arkansas(microbeveling...) ..... in Soft Arkansas Review and 90/90/90° X-Grain Push Cut on Phonebook Paper with 154CM and Smith's Diamond Tri-Hone for various steels?
 
Grandmaster said:
people don't generally start sharpening free hand right away, ....................., when you learn the basics you move to more sophisticated sharpening methods, starting freehand would only cause frustration and mess up your knives
Click to expand...

WANT TO BET? I learned free hand without all those others you mentioned............ on Arkansas stones, green leather strop.... I can hold my own. But I have sharpened about 4-500 knives since this last Christmas! :P Only knife I've had to resharpen for a 2nd time was my brother's fillet knife that he used to cut floor carpeting with; and I got it back just as razor sharp. It does test your patience and make you watch what happens when you try new things/angles, and you'll learn to appreciate good steel vs cheap "pakistani" steel. :eek:
 
btw, I use Lansky arkansas stones, one whitish, one with more black to finish. Then I use a green paste leather strop. The leather strop will take your edges to a whole new level of sharp!! :)
 
LarryPT said:
I bought an Opinel Natural Sharpening Stone to try sharpening. I tried to sharpen a cheap stainless knife but it didn't even cut paper... Please help, also note that I'm new. http://www.amazon.com/Opinel-001127-Natural-Sharpening-Stone/dp/B000UTIZL2 <--- Stone Used
Click to expand...

I think it helps to know that the stone is completly capable

It's not the stone.

It's how its being used.
When I was learning I was always curious "maybe it's the stone?"

Sometimes I think maybe it would have helped if someone told me what experience has taught me.

"It's not the stone"

With learning and practice you'll be sharpening with the best of em.

It's a very rewarding skill., worth the time and effort
 
Choose an angle. I'd say 15 dps (degrees per side) which adds up to 30 degree inclusive. Now go find someone you know with a miters? Saw the ones that cut angles and get a small piece of wood cut to 15 degrees. This is now your guide to keep a consistent angle. Run the blade across the stone consistently for 2 minutes. Now on the side facing up when sharpening, rub finger from the flat top portion of knife to the edge and continue till finger is off knife. If it catches slightly on the edge that is a bur. Check entire blade. Your goal is a bur across the entire edge. Sharpen until you do. Now switch sides and sharpen until you reach a bur. Once the second bur is formed, switch sides again and double the angle the knife is held at and make 1 pass. Check if that removed the bur. If it did make sure it didn't just roll the edge to a bur on the other side. If it didn't remove bur then make one more pass and repeat checking. If it rolled to the other side you can probably lightly go double angle to remove. I've only ever used freehand and if I felt like it, could shave with my knife but it doesn't always want to cut paper


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
LarryPT said:
I bought an Opinel Natural Sharpening Stone to try sharpening. I tried to sharpen a cheap stainless knife but it didn't even cut paper... Please help, also note that I'm new. http://www.amazon.com/Opinel-001127-Natural-Sharpening-Stone/dp/B000UTIZL2 <--- Stone Used
Click to expand...

The text and linked videos in the quote box below are excerpted from the following linked thread:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1029230-New-to-Sharpening-Need-help!

This particular post below, from the above-linked thread, provides great instruction from BF member 'jackknife' (a.k.a., Carl) on the basics of freehand sharpening, using very simple means & tools. The videos were taken by BF member 'Downhill Trucker', whom himself was seeking help very much in the same vein as yourself, and Carl stepped up in a big way. The result was a fine collaboration:

Downhill Trucker said:
Sorry that it has taken me so long to get the videos uploaded. First off, I want to thank jackknife (Carl) for his help. He is a remarkable fellow and took the time to explain to me in clear, concise simplicity, the key to sharpening a knife. After merely filming the first video, I sat down and had a dull knife sharp in 5 minutes. Carl is a master of his craft and should be watched closely. Here is the much anticipated first video... Sorry, I am by no means a video guy and have no editing skills. The good news is that Carl makes it simple and easy. A great teacher...

Instinctive Knife Sharpening:
[video=youtube;SEMLu8e34ck]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEMLu8e34ck&feature=youtu.be[/video]

After the initial sharpening lesson, we found a rock and a piece of brick nearby. He dulled the knife and sharpened it with these two objects:
[video=youtube;Twduvki8m90]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twduvki8m90&feature=youtu.be[/video]

Thanks again to the forum members who gave me great info. I have some work to do at sharpening but this has been a great start. Enjoy the videos.
Click to expand...


David
 
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bucketstove said:
Since this stone is fine grit , kinda like an arkansas stone, think about complementing it with a coarse stone , a cheap one, like a $1 dollar tree stone
Click to expand...

A more coarse stone is a very good idea. Fine stones tend to be very frustrating when trying to sharpen a dull blade. The coarse stone will get the job done much more quickly and improve your learning curve. Coarse stones are something every beginner should have and use.

But please, please don't buy a dollar store stone. I think that's bad advice as the quality is so horrible that it will inhibit your learning process. Get a real coarse stone like a Coarse Crystolon, a combination Crystolon, or a combination India. All available for around $20 and will pretty much last a lifetime. Example:

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Norton-Combination-Crystolon-Stone-P179C5.aspx

Brian.
 
bgentry said:
A more coarse stone is a very good idea. Fine stones tend to be very frustrating when trying to sharpen a dull blade. The coarse stone will get the job done much more quickly and improve your learning curve. Coarse stones are something every beginner should have and use.

But please, please don't buy a dollar store stone. I think that's bad advice as the quality is so horrible that it will inhibit your learning process. Get a real coarse stone like a Coarse Crystolon, a combination Crystolon, or a combination India. All available for around $20 and will pretty much last a lifetime. Example:

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Norton-Combination-Crystolon-Stone-P179C5.aspx

Brian.
Click to expand...

Dollar store stone is the only stone i've ever owned and it's worked for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Grandmaster said:
people don't generally start sharpening free hand right away, buy yourself the Spyderco Tri Angle Sharpener, Lansky Sharpener, DMT Guided Sharpener, when you learn the basics you move to more sophisticated sharpening methods, starting freehand would only cause frustration and mess up your knives
Click to expand...


Sharpening devices are relatively new in the world of sharpening, people have been learning by hand for hundreds of years.
 
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My 2¢, do not learn on your Opinel or any other knife you care about. If your session heads South you're going to naturally feel some anxiety about the state of your knife and it will only make learning that much harder.

If you don't have a cheap knife you can actually learn a fair amount grinding a plastic or hardwood shim, aluminum flat stock etc into knife shapes using woodworking sandpaper glued or taped to a block of wood. A couple of Goodwill knives are a great investment to learn on.

Here's the manual I provide with my sharpening block (link below). Most of the content is general sharpening tips and practices you might find useful.

http://www.washboardsharpening.com/user-guide.html
 
He's actually trying out an Opinel stone on a cheap (stainless) knife, per his comments in the OP. I don't think he's sacrificing any of his good knives yet.


David
 
The Opinel stone is manufactured by an Italian company that specializes in scythe stones and the stone used is very fine. If trying to do any bevel setting work it will be much too fine to do the job well. It should be considered a finishing and maintenance stone.
 
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