Need help with Damascus Jewelry Steel choices

nateman_doo

nateman_doo

Joined
Sep 16, 2015
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157
First let me say hello and introduce myself as this is my first post. I just started messing around with forging a few months ago and managed to make my first successful Damascus ring. I used 15N20, and O1 tool steel. The problem is the O1 will rust on the finger and make a yellow band (or the cold bluing that i tried to use).

I tried to experiment with 15N20 and 304 Stainless, but I couldn't get them to bond, and the 304 Stainless was even more resistant to the etching then the 15N20. Does anyone have a good suggestion to help the yellow band on the finger? A choice of steel that will etch, and wont rust?

Here is the ring:


(blued)
 
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Stainless damascus seems like it would be a good choice in this instance. I can't help you with how to make it, but it could be a starting point for searches for you. You can also buy small quantities of stainless damascus if you are unable to make it on your own.
 
I heated 304 stainless and tried to bond it with 15N20, but they would not bond. The layers of 15N20 that were touching bonded flawlessly. Does the temps of stainless need to be higher? Also i was thinking if I tried hydrochloric acid to etch if that would be better to etch stainless.
 
i was looking this very topic up in the interwebz last week. It appears that a some folks will use standard carbon damascus with a clear lacquer overcoat for stuff like pendants, broaches, dangly earnings etc, because they can make it themselves if they are so inclined. Most of the rings seem to be made from stainless damascus like Devin Thomas' stuff or stainless Damasteel rod and even then, some of the makers will electroplate the inside of the ring with gold.
 
I have some 304 Stainless, 301 Stainless, and 15N20 sitting in muratic acid, and Ferric Chloride for about an hour now. So far nothing.

How would one plate just the inside of a ring instead of the whole ring?
 
Look at what the high dollar mokume gane rings folks like Binnion do.

Put an internal sleeve liner inside and form it up over the edges.
Use something like silver or some type of gold and solder it on.

http://www.mokume-gane.com/index.ph...yles_profiles&subsubpage=mokume_channel_rings
ACHE242.jpg
 
But the outsides are still making contact with skin. Granted the contact isn't as intense as the inside, but it could transfer some of the yellow to the other fingers.

There are subtle differences after 1.5 Hours in both the acids, so perhaps i can try the stainless and the 15N20. The 15N20 etches a bit more since it has far less nickle then the 301/304 stainless. perhaps it will be enough to show the contrasts (provided I can get them to bond together in the first place...
 
Our wedding bands are stainless damascus with sterling silver liners, made by a fellow named J. Arthur Loose. He uses 304L and 316L for the damascus. No problems at all with wear, corrosion or staining (either the rings or our fingers) after just over 3 years of wearing them constantly. :thumbup:

(I should point out that I wear my ring every day in my knife shop, where it's very often exposed to steel/iron dust and various chemicals, as well as abrasion. I'm fully pleased with its durability.)

Several bladesmiths pattern weld hardenable stainless alloys for knives, and some of them sell billets to other makers. It's not inexpensive, but it would save you plenty time and they would be able to tell you how to HT and etch it properly.

I'm pretty confident that jewelry containing low-alloy steels is going to rust/tarnish/stain your skin sooner or later (probably sooner) no matter how you etch it or coat it. Save the carbon steel for knife blades :)
 
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Here are my tests:


On the left is the Ferric Choride, and on the right Muriatic. (nasty stuff on the right)

Metals on the left are 15N20 and on the right 304 stainless, (as well as the little squares 301) I left them in there for over an hour. then i wiped them off, and left them on the table over night. I didn't wash them because i wanted to see what it would do overnight with just a wipe off instead of a good cleaning.

It would seem that the 15N20 had less corrosion resistance then the actual 301/304 stainless.

Its encouraging because it means there will be a difference in the metals and thats all i want. I would have liked the black and silver, but maybe some cold bluing will help with that.

Now I just have to get them to bond. I am hoping leaving in the forge glowing at the max my forge can do, and squashed by my 50 ton press will be enough to bond it.

This is still a few weeks off, but I will post the results.
 
Stainless steels need to be welded in a canister, I think the chromium makes it very hard or impossible to forge weld it like carbon steel.

You have to make a silver band inside the ring to keep it from discoloring skin, you could also use gold and a few other metals but I would just use silver. Without the silver band you should coat the ring with something to seal it, but the coating will probably wear off.

I would use 15n20 which is bright because of the % 2 nickle and 1084 because its cheap and etches dark. I don't know much about stainless patternweld but I think you might get better contrast with it.

Stainless is just rust resistant, not rust proof, personally I would go with 15n20 and 1084 with a silver liner.

Also, hardening the ring will make it etch darker (im pretty sure) and if you really want your pattern to pop you can do a long etch and then polish the high spots, the darker steel will have etched more so its low enough to not get polished while the brighter steel will be made even brighter by polishing.

The ring you posted looks very nice, ive got some 500 layer 1070 I'm going to make a piece of jewelry from tomorrow.
 
Short of gold plating or solid gold, none of the "liners" that have been mentioned are maintenance free. Silver tarnishes and I read somewhere that sterling tarnishes more quickly than "fine" silver. Don't know if that is correct, but we know that sterling will get a little bit funky just sitting around for too long.
 
Sterling liners are the norm. Fine silver does not tarnish, but is too soft for a liner.
Gold is used on mokume rings as the liner. Most mokume will still stain the adjacent fingers.
Stainless damascus is better than carbon.


The best choice is precious metal mokume. Delbert and I both use yellow and while gold as well as platinum and silver in the mix.

I don't know if any of you have ever noticed my belt buckle, but it is a slightly modified ABS logo with the blade being 24K and platinum damascus ( technically it is mokume).
 
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my wedding ring is stainless damascus and it's only given me any issues yellowing at all with salt water... and this would likely be fixed by heat treating it, which i still haven't done. i think this could solve your problem
 
quenching, or tempering it would solve the problem?
I have read that if you seal your billet completely, by welding around the entire perimeter, so while its a bit of work, I think its do-able for me.
 
Stacy, I have seen both 14k and 18k offers as liner material. Obviously, 24k is too soft. Which do you prefer and what are the pros and cons of each aside from the inherent color differences and, of course, price? Also, what benefit would lacquering the parts that mitigate be subject to even slight corrosion be?
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Sterling liners are the norm. Fine silver does not tarnish, but is too soft for a liner.
Gold is used on mokume rings as the liner. Most mokume will still stain the adjacent fingers.
Stainless damascus is better than carbon.


The best choice is precious metal mokume. Delbert and I both use yellow and while gold as well as platinum and silver in the mix.

I don't know if any of you have ever noticed my belt buckle, but it is a slightly modified ABS logo with the blade being 24K and platinum damascus ( technically it is mokume).
Click to expand...
 
14K is more durable and stronger than 18K. Most people are surprised that 14KY and 18KY are really close in color. Some 18K jewelry is actually plated with 22K to make it look yellower ( often called Roman gold or Italian gold). In white gold, the difference is virtually indistinguishable.

Another choice as a liner material is palladium. It is similar to platinum in properties, and works/shapes quite easily. A real plus for it is that it takes on a gray look with wear that would match stainless damascus very well. It is about the same cost as 14K.

Any coating like lacquer will just look bad and/or rub off soon. On a ring worn daily, it would not work at all.

Any stainless damascus ring should be fully Heat Treated and tempered to a mid/low 50's Rc. For rings, use the higher temper range. Stainless steel is not stainless until it is heat treated.
 
Ho do you harden stuff like 304 or 316? I didn't think that it hardened?
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
14K is more durable and stronger than 18K. Most people are surprised that 14KY and 18KY are really close in color. Some 18K jewelry is actually plated with 22K to make it look yellower ( often called Roman gold or Italian gold). In white gold, the difference is virtually indistinguishable.

Another choice as a liner material is palladium. It is similar to platinum in properties, and works/shapes quite easily. A real plus for it is that it takes on a gray look with wear that would match stainless damascus very well. It is about the same cost as 14K.

Any coating like lacquer will just look bad and/or rub off soon. On a ring worn daily, it would not work at all.

Any stainless damascus ring should be fully Heat Treated and tempered to a mid/low 50's Rc. For rings, use the higher temper range. Stainless steel is not stainless until it is heat treated.
Click to expand...
 
The stainless Damascus I have used is made from mixes like 304 and A-EBL. It seems to harden just fine.
 
I know that AEB-L based damascus will get quite hard as long as you don't "dilute" it too much with low carbon stuff, but I am thinking about the jewelry grade stuff made from the low carbon variants like the 316L/304L or possible a mix of 304 and 420 like Ariel uses.
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
The stainless Damascus I have used is made from mixes like 304 and A-EBL. It seems to harden just fine.
Click to expand...
 
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