Need neew stones for razor honing progression

S

Slim7

Joined
Oct 11, 2015
Messages
84
Hi,
Right now I have the Kuromaku shapton stones. I have the 1.5k, 5k and 8k. I usually finish on a Naniwa 12k, but the Kuromakus leave aggressive deep stria for their given grit, when I go to the Naniwa 12k, I have all those rogue scraches left by the pros. The 5k and 8k I don't like the 5k has zero feedback and loads very fast, and the 8k isn't a true 8k grit rating, IMO I think its much coarser than its given rating. I was wanting to go with the Shapton Glass stones, probably keep using my pro 1.5k, if the Shapton glass 4k and 8k have enough umph to remove the deep stria if the 1.5k, but if not I will replace it with a SG/2k. I do understand that some stones do not work well together, for example like mixing half Naniwas in a progression and half shapton, some systems work better if you use 'mostly' the entire sharpening stones system/ series.

I do have some questions about the differences between the Glass HR and HC. From what I have read online is that the HC stones are hard, but a little softer than the HR stones, but the HC still don't release as much abrasive as the HR stones . I also read that the HC/gray stones are actually finer, or polish more than the HR stones. The HR are known to have maybe a more ceramic feel I guess. I do own the shapton glass 500 and it does feel more like say a pro stone, meaning the ceramic feel, but it does release way much more abrasive than the pro, I am just talking about how it feels I guess. So are they much difference in the HC and HR series?
I borrowed a Shapton HC 8k from a buddy and it does seem very fine and a good polisher, for me but I am not sure how the SG HR 8k would compare in fineness, hardness, speed, and feedback to the white 8k shapton glass hc.


Thanks,
Mike
 
ToddS said:
What do you do after the Naniwa 12k? Just clean linen and leather?
Click to expand...
Yes, but sometimes I use crox on balsa wood after the Naniwa 12k, then clean real flax linen and leather.

If you don't mind - I have a question for you, Todd. Can or do you have a any way to measure particle sizes in powders? I have some really really fine submicron white aluminum oxide powder, and I am curious how consistent the particle size is. It seems really really fine and fast too. I will give you two samples to have, if you would like.


Thanks,
Mike
 
S Slim7 I would look at the Suehiro Debado stones and also the 15K Suehiro stone,my friend use's the Suehiro Debado stones for his straight razor and really like them,I have the Suehiro 10 15 and 20K stones and they are all great finishing stones for sure,I would have to say that from what I have found Suehiro water stones are the best stones on the market and are really high quality.
 
Not a user of straight razors, but have you considered J-Nats? A lot of the face-slicing set swear that they produce a more comfortable shave.
 
I've not found any evidence that these many-stoned progressions that some people use have any value. Personally, I've concluded there isn't any need to use more than 2 grits, and with straight razors ever a reason to go below 2k grit (other than the initial geometry correction or massive damage, where I would use the DMT EF, or even a belt sander). I have maintained razors for years with only the Shapton Glass 4k (with Atoma 400 to condition it) and strops.

That said, I think it is important to have a stone in that 4k range that you like using and become familiar with. The key is to find a balance between removing steel at a reasonable rate and not creating deep sub-surface damage (which will lead to micro-chipping later on). Maybe start by leaving your 1.5 and 5k on the bench and just maintain with your 8k and 12k. Don't be afraid to do hundreds of laps (I alternate sides with sets of 20 or 30 back and forth strokes, reducing the number until I am doing single edge leading alternating sides) there is no such thing as "overhoning" in the edge leading direction.

I don't have easy access to particle size distribution measurement, and I don't think it is particularly useful in this application because one large particle out of a million will still create oversized scratches. It is more important to choose an appropriate substrate that can absorb the oversize particles.
 
Yes, one or 2 stones is all thats needed. ^ I use my Belgium coticule a black Arkansas or Charnley Forest stone. In the scrubing method mentioned. Rarely a strop. These give a great shave right off the stone. DM
 
ToddS said:
I've not found any evidence that these many-stoned progressions that some people use have any value. Personally, I've concluded there isn't any need to use more than 2 grits, and with straight razors ever a reason to go below 2k grit (other than the initial geometry correction or massive damage, where I would use the DMT EF, or even a belt sander). I have maintained razors for years with only the Shapton Glass 4k (with Atoma 400 to condition it) and strops.

That said, I think it is important to have a stone in that 4k range that you like using and become familiar with. The key is to find a balance between removing steel at a reasonable rate and not creating deep sub-surface damage (which will lead to micro-chipping later on). Maybe start by leaving your 1.5 and 5k on the bench and just maintain with your 8k and 12k. Don't be afraid to do hundreds of laps (I alternate sides with sets of 20 or 30 back and forth strokes, reducing the number until I am doing single edge leading alternating sides) there is no such thing as "overhoning" in the edge leading direction.

I don't have easy access to particle size distribution measurement, and I don't think it is particularly useful in this application because one large particle out of a million will still create oversized scratches. It is more important to choose an appropriate substrate that can absorb the oversize particles.
Click to expand...
I agree + some guys say only do 10-15 strokes on a 12k Naniwa or a 16k Shapton glass. They claim if you do more than that then you get over-honed edge. There is no way 10-15 strokes you get a 16k edge. They are fast, but not that fast, and especially the ultra light pressure we use when honing razors, it can be difficult to overhone. I typically use 25-30;strokes on a synthesic finisher. I am fairly new to honing razors, and certainly have lots to learn, a friend of mine Steve Hamley has helped me a lot during my honing jouney. 'Somef of the fellows on the shaving forums are self made experts, lol. I like learning so I keep an open mind.
I wish you did have a way to know if a particular particle size is consistent, it's fine and seems fairly fast, but my OCD keeps wanting to know.

Thanks,
Mike
 
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