Need Some Help Before Buying- Fox Dart or Fox Dart XT?

W

Wolfeye

Joined
Apr 26, 2015
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Hey guys. I was just about to buy the Fox Dart XT when I got to thinking that the stud for the LAWKS lock on the back might screw up my grip on the knife. I can't tell from the pictures if it would be in the way & I didn't find any reviews on their site. Before I spend at least $150 on one of these knives (the regular dart is about that, the XT is around $172), I wanted any info I could get.

The liner lock, especially for this type of blade, I don't think is such a good idea. Any kind of "torsion" or whatever it would be called could unlock the blade, just like your grip could- this is made for EDC with combative purposes included & since there could be all kinds of forces on the knife when using it combatively, the lockback would have made more sense all around. That said, I'm figuring the one with the LAWKS lock might be the better idea. Not if my grip is opening the damn thing, though.

Seriously, does anyone know anywhere I can get things custom-forged? I know places that make folding knives are usually trickier to find, since it takes a lot to make one & then it generally costs astronomical prices to get one (thus, not many do it). I remember pricing out a knife at Karambit.com that would have been $1,000 or so.
 
Not sure your concerns regarding the liner lock are valid unless you're using it with the pinky in the ring and a forward grip. In reverse grip it would be difficult if not impossible to comma cut, which is what causes liner locks to fail. With the LAWKS, that nullifies such concerns. If the liner lock really worries you, find someone who'll make a titanium or steel frame scale and turn it into a frame lock, which will be reinforced by your grip. BTW, CRKTs were and may still be known for weaker-than-average liner locks, another reason they licensed the LAWKS in the first place.

Either that, wait for the Caswell 2.0 to go into regular production, or try the MaxVenom Dimachaerus.
 
average gimp: Not a bad idea on the frame lock. I'd still worry a little bit about it twisting & turning while in my hand, but I don't know anyone that can do that anyway. If they could switch the whole thing to lockback & put a dent in it, that would be good- then my grip's not going to do anything to it.

For the LAWKS design, does it tend to dig into or be tripped my your hand when holding it point-down? I mean with other knives that have that feature? Wouldn't normally nit-pick, but I'd have to pay for returns, by the look of it.
 
average gimp said:
Not sure your concerns regarding the liner lock are valid unless you're using it with the pinky in the ring and a forward grip. In reverse grip it would be difficult if not impossible to comma cut, which is what causes liner locks to fail. With the LAWKS, that nullifies such concerns. If the liner lock really worries you, find someone who'll make a titanium or steel frame scale and turn it into a frame lock, which will be reinforced by your grip. BTW, CRKTs were and may still be known for weaker-than-average liner locks, another reason they licensed the LAWKS in the first place.

Either that, wait for the Caswell 2.0 to go into regular production, or try the MaxVenom Dimachaerus.
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+1 on the Caswell 2.0, can't wait to see it!
 
Wolfeye said:
average gimp: Not a bad idea on the frame lock. I'd still worry a little bit about it twisting & turning while in my hand, but I don't know anyone that can do that anyway. If they could switch the whole thing to lockback & put a dent in it, that would be good- then my grip's not going to do anything to it.
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There you ought to get a 5.11 and have it Boye dented and waved. Anyone with a Dremel can handle the former; the latter will require a grinder. Luckily I had mine done while Charlie Mike was still doing wave jobs.

Wolfeye said:
For the LAWKS design, does it tend to dig into or be tripped my your hand when holding it point-down? I mean with other knives that have that feature? Wouldn't normally nit-pick, but I'd have to pay for returns, by the look of it.
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The LAWKS on the CRKT KFF I had was unobtrusive in use and in grip. The knife was otherwise a piece of useless garbage due to weak ball detent, substandard steel (back when they were using AUS6 rather than mystery steel du jour), and nonexistent heat treat. However, the knife was expressly designed for saber grip, was OK for reverse grip edge out, and pikal was prohibitive, at least in my hands. Further, the LAWKS placement on the KFF further encouraged it, as the thumb would actuate the LAWKS while sliding into the proper grip. With the DART I see this as another problem, namely how one is supposed to actuate the LAWKS from the hammer side of the hand when the dextrous side is the ridge side. Here would be a case for the auto-LAWKS, which engages when the blade opens without the user's input.
 
Oh, shit! I didn't know it had to be locked after opening, I thought it just happened from opening the blade & then you had to UNlock it! WTF?! Good thing I came on here & asked some questions, instead of just buying it.

Which 5.11 were you thinking? I've only seen a couple of karambits, but not straight blades with karambit handles.
 
Wolfeye said:
Which 5.11 were you thinking? I've only seen a couple of karambits, but not straight blades with karambit handles.
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Sorry--I forgot your focus. Straight-bladed kerambits are very thin on the ground. AFAIK your only other options are the Browning Speed Dial (given how sucky the Vanquish was, I wouldn't recommend it) or a fixed blade such as the CS Bird & Trout, the forthcoming CS Bird & Game, the Ka-Bar Snake Charmer, or the Bastinelli Le Picoeur. There's also the MaxVenom Dimachaerus I mentioned above, but that's only k-bit-like while closed.
 
average gimp: Those look good. I'm looking out for the Bark River Ringtail for a fixed blade (though that Cold Steel Bird & Game looks like a good idea for likely A LOT less), but I'd still like a folder with a ring handle (easier to get at quickly- a fixed blade I'd need to keep under my shirt or in my pocket like a folder, both of which can make drawing it harder). Kind of like gun holsters, I guess.
 
Wolfeye said:
average gimp: Those look good. I'm looking out for the Bark River Ringtail for a fixed blade (though that Cold Steel Bird & Game looks like a good idea for likely A LOT less), but I'd still like a folder with a ring handle (easier to get at quickly- a fixed blade I'd need to keep under my shirt or in my pocket like a folder, both of which can make drawing it harder). Kind of like gun holsters, I guess.
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The Le Picoeur is meant for transverse carry on the waistband or inside sleeve carry, and is also available in black:

[youtube]reIkGfXQfCo[/youtube]
 
average gimp said:
The Le Picoeur is meant for transverse carry on the waistband or inside sleeve carry, and is also available in black:

[youtube]reIkGfXQfCo[/youtube]
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I carry the Picoeur in my left cargo pants pocket, completely hidden but on a tether attached to my belt. When in pocket it hangs near the finger ring. I draw it out of pocket with my left index finger and in doing so the tether slides down to the bottom of the sheath allowing the knife to be pulled out with one hand ending in an ice pick grip.

I too am a fan of finger holes and like blades like the Silent Soldier, La Griffe and of course karambits. They feel very secure in hand even for normal EDC tasks.

36f58dd6f5c160888f33a229f0830dff.jpg



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That one is an interesting blade, but I don't understand what you mean about how you carry it. I think I might just get a Cold Steel 20AZ Bird & Game. That seems to cover a lot & If I could carry the same way you were talking about, it seems like I could carry it pretty easy.

Speaking of which: Have you ever seen Conceal, Carry, and Draw by Ray Ellingson? I was thinking of getting it, in case there were some tricks I missed (for $20, I don't think that's too bad- if there's nothing new, oh well), but I don't see the point if it doesn't really go beyond the obvious (neck knives tucked into your waistband, folding it through itself & wrapping it around your waist, tip-up carry for pocket knives, etc...). I know a few tricks, but then again, I LEARNED most of those.
 
Wolfeye said:
That one is an interesting blade, but I don't understand what you mean about how you carry it. I think I might just get a Cold Steel 20AZ Bird & Game. That seems to cover a lot & If I could carry the same way you were talking about, it seems like I could carry it pretty easy...
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He's referring to static-line carry, where the sheath has a length of cord tied to the base and looped around the belt. Works for pocket and IWB carry. This works better with shock cord than parachute cord as the elasticity quickens the draw.

Wolfeye said:
...Speaking of which: Have you ever seen Conceal, Carry, and Draw by Ray Ellingson? I was thinking of getting it, in case there were some tricks I missed (for $20, I don't think that's too bad- if there's nothing new, oh well), but I don't see the point if it doesn't really go beyond the obvious (neck knives tucked into your waistband, folding it through itself & wrapping it around your waist, tip-up carry for pocket knives, etc...). I know a few tricks, but then again, I LEARNED most of those.
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The video was OK when it was new, well over 10 years ago. It's dated now and meant for rank beginners, and one of his favorite toys is the so-called "ninja keyring."

urdefense_2271_13551521


It's a useful striking tool but not pocket friendly at all, and the sheath he demos with it was a) hard to draw from, and b) is no longer made. The DART notwithstanding, tip-down is preferable for knives that are meant to be drawn as impact devices (that's why I also prefer bezel-down for defensive flashlights). Steve Gartin, one of the designers of the original Spyderco Police, demonstrates that here at 2:49-3:32 and at 6:09-6:40:

[youtube]cEWwXPX_DGg[/youtube]
 
Oh! I get it now- yeah, that's a good trick. How do you get it to work with the shock cord? Cut it & tie it like rope?

You say that the instructional is dated- what do you mean? I don't get how it can be dated, except for a few new designs (like the Emerson Wave & the Fox Dart). I get the sense I know a good bit about the subject (ex: the fact that plaid doesn't print as bad & seemingly neither does black or white- something to do with making shadows indistinct).
 
Wolfeye said:
Oh! I get it now- yeah, that's a good trick. How do you get it to work with the shock cord? Cut it & tie it like rope?
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Yes. Same principle as iaido/iaijutsu--speed the draw by moving knife and sheath at the same time.

Wolfeye said:
You say that the instructional is dated- what do you mean? I don't get how it can be dated, except for a few new designs (like the Emerson Wave & the Fox Dart). I get the sense I know a good bit about the subject (ex: the fact that plaid doesn't print as bad & seemingly neither does black or white- something to do with making shadows indistinct).
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Nowhere near as specific as you mention near the end of your post. Ellingsen never varies from T-shirt and jeans in any of the videos I've seen of his (4 at last count, again, many moons ago, and I didn't keep them or convert them to DVD). As to being dated, the Emerson wave was around then; kerambits weren't yet on the popular radar, nor were carries such as inside the sleeve/watchband, inside the collar/between buttons on a shit, inside a suit jacket pocket sheath (see Bud Nealy designs), shoulder harnesses, belly bands, ankle carries, Thunderwear-type holsters (they can carry more than handguns, especially if you're not in a shall-issue CCW state. It's also extremely simplistic. There are better ways to spend your money than on any TRS/FightFast video.
 
Looks good! Might be able to get it on ebay for cheaper than the TOPS site. I'm still looking at the Cold Steel 20AZ- lots cheaper & likely an easier carry. Thing is, it doesn't seem as durable & it's not as long. Ah, decisions decisions.
 
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