New, better Plumb timeline....

[gben]

This axe belonged to the father of a girl I went to high-school with. He was about 90 years old when he passed. The hang-job looks as factory as any I have ever seen, no screw-wedge means it is probably 42-on. No trace of paint ever being on the head and the handle is blonde and has as good a grain orientation as I have ever seen. I saw a couple of old magazine ads on Google books talking about how the finish was changed and/or deleted on some of the Plumb products during WWII so I thought maybe this was one of those...... But with the new info from Google ads it looks like the WWII era Plumbs are the ones marked "Plumb Victory". This axe is from after WWII.... For the new Plumb timeline scroll down to where the old magazine ads are posted, thanks.....

 

[300Six]

If only tools could talk. The 'mahoganized' finish (that's what Plumb called it) and black-painted heads feature came into use just after WWI and if I recall was trademarked in around 1922. Presumably all of their tools featured this. And as you suggest, perhaps paints and stains were not readily available (or were redirected into the war effort) for a few years during WWII. I don't know when Plumb switched from stamped text on their handles over to paper labels but take a good look for some sort of ID.

Or; maybe an earlier generation COTS-type craftsman got ahold of this axe when the original handle broke, lovingly shined it up and scouted out an AAA handle to install on it. Looks like that shop even used a bandsaw to trim the eye almost flush.

 

[Square_peg]

Good lookin' axe.

I wouldn't assume any hang is factory if the haft doesn't have a logo on it.

 

[300Six]

Good lookin' axe.

I wouldn't assume any hang is factory if the haft doesn't have a logo on it.

A diligent lad with time and energy, and 120 grit sandpaper, can readily (and innocently) remove all traces of a wood stamp. I know this because I did it to weathered wood, pitch-stained handles and ugly-painted jobbies numerous times, many years ago. Aftermarket handles of yore tended have a stamp but the nice-grained entirely unfinished ones I've been finding lately (at Home Hardware) are entirely blank.

 

[rjdankert]

Good lookin' axe.

I wouldn't assume any hang is factory if the haft doesn't have a logo on it.

Just to add, I wouldn't assume any hang is factory if the haft does have a logo on it.

Bob


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Teacher once wrote "assume" on the blackboard and told us while underlining:

When you assume you make an
assume

out of
assume

and
assume

 

[Square_peg]

While some makers did offer replacement handles most users just bought whatever was at the hardware store. Most of the time an axe with matching logos on the head and haft is a factory hang. But Bob is right, it's never a sure thing.

I recently saw a fine old handle joined to a funky tool and being offered as NOS when it obviously wasn't. That stuff does happen.

 

[rjdankert]

. . .I recently saw a fine old handle joined to a funky tool and being offered as NOS when it obviously wasn't. That stuff does happen.

HaHa Quite awhile back I posted a screenshot of a double bit with a curved single bit handle for sale on ebay. The add said "original handle". IIRC they were asking $60. Just for the heck of it I put on my watch list. It kept getting relisted and I believe it was for sale for a year. I don't remember if it ever sold.

Bob

 

[Steve Tall]

...

Teacher once wrote "assume" on the blackboard and told us while underlining:

When you assume you make an
assume

out of
assume

and
assume

I actually first heard it from a "teacher" named Mr. Hill:

[video=youtube;R6jaKkE0RsI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6jaKkE0RsI[/video]

 

[300Six]

Just to add, I wouldn't assume any hang is factory if the haft does have a logo on it.

Bob


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Teacher once wrote "assume" on the blackboard and told us while underlining:

When you assume you make an
assume

out of
assume

and
assume

Lucky me for using mostly using 'presume' instead of 'assume'. So did LBJ assume the Oval Office upon the death of JFK, or what?

 

[Steve Tall]

... I saw a couple of old magazine ads on Google books talking about how the finish was changed and/or deleted on some of the Plumb products during WWII so I thought maybe this was one of those...

"Because of Government limitations, the appearance of some Plumb Tools has changed.."
"While the fine finish has gone for the duration..."
Popular Science, Sep 1943
Popular Mechanics, Oct 1943

"Because of Government limitations, some of the finish is gone from Plumb tools..."
Popular Science, Nov 1944
Popular Mechanics, Dec 1944

 

[rjdankert]

I actually first heard it from a "teacher" named Mr. Hill: . .

[video=youtube;LfvTwv5o1Qs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfvTwv5o1Qs[/video]

I don't know which skit came first, I heard the "assume" joke in Nov, 1968. I assume the teacher heard it before that. Whatever, I assume it's an old joke.

Bob

 

[rjdankert]

. . . So did LBJ assume the Oval Office upon the death of JFK, or what?

So did you assume membership to BFC in Aug 2013, or what?

Bob

 

[gben]

"Because of Government limitations, the appearance of some Plumb Tools has changed.."
"While the fine finish has gone for the duration..."
Popular Science, Sep 1943
Popular Mechanics, Oct 1943

"Because of Government limitations, some of the finish is gone from Plumb tools..."
Popular Science, Nov 1944
Popular Mechanics, Dec 1944

Thank-you yet again for Steve Tall offering facts and research........ Maybe someday others here will give that a try.

Some of the same Popular Science ads I looked at with a Google search.

I have a Plumb Victory DB with it's original handle and it has it's reddish stain and black paint, and it has no embossing on it's handle. also it's hang-job looks pretty much the same as all the original old axes I have seen. I also have True Temper and Blue Grass axes with original hangs. After looking at a number axes and hatchets found in the wild it is pretty easy to tell which ones have been done by amateurs and which ones have their factory hang intact, if not 100% of the time certainly much, much closer to it than half the time. I am talking about axes that have been hung by people before axes became collector's items, that have the haft and wedging oxidized to match the patina of the axe head. Collectors of antique furniture have the brains to tell if their collectibles have been tampered with, so anyone can do it in any genre of collectible if they have the proper experience and the brains with which to use it.


http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1308480-quot-newish-quot-Plumb-Victory-double-bit

 

[gben]

One of the pages that Steve Tall linked to from 1943. Notice that the small tools have embossed handles, but the axe has a label. Notice also that the heads of the tools are stamped 'Plumb Victory". This would mean that the Plumb tools that are marked "Plumb Victory" are the WWII era tools, and that the axe above might be from post WWII. The tools in all four of the ads Steve Tall linked to have the same tools in them.

Here is a Plumb ad from late 1946 that shows the hammer back to the plain "Plumb" stamp in the box:

Maybe with our Google ads we can make a better Plumb timeline now: Early 1920s marked "Plumb" in box with small "usa" under box. Late 1930s marked with "Guaranteed Plumb", 1940 "Genuine Plumb" started. 1942 screw-wedge discontinued, 1943 'Plumb Victory" stamp starts. 1946 start "Plumb" logo in a box with no "usa" beneath.


Ad from 1922:

Ad from 1938:

 

[Agent_H]

Can't read.

 

[gben]

Thanks for your time Agent H, next time do a bit more reading. The original post with 'WWII" in the title also had a ? after it, I made no claims. Before your post I edited it with new info I found telling it was not from wWII....

.... But with the new info from Google ads it looks like the WWII era Plumbs are the ones marked "Plumb Victory". This axe is from after WWII.... For the new Plumb timeline scroll down to where the old magazine ads are posted, thanks.....

 

[300Six]

Thank you gben. From what I can see your careful observations 'hold water'.
Curious that handle decals/labels were used on all of the tools shown in the 1922 ad. If the war years (43 through 45) are the timeline of the Victory stamp then the Plumb National pattern (trade marked Sept 1948 and introduced as 'new' in magazine ads beginning in 1948) had to have been discretely introduced before the end of the war. A member here posted a picture of a Plumb Victory in National pattern not long ago. It could well be that 1946 was a transition year for war material manufacturers, enabling Victory-stamped products to spill over into 1946 and maybe even 1947.

 

[Steve Tall]

I'm being given too much credit here. For example, Agent_H had previously posted some of Plumb's wartime advertisements before I mentioned them, including this one that I did not mention (from April 1944 Popular Science):

"Plumb, too, has a different appearance. Some of the finish is gone -- eliminated by Government Order."

1944 Popular Science Ad “Victory”

Seeing the advertisement enlarged by gben does make the stamp resemble PLUMB VICTORY (which I previously didn't see). This would be consistent with Fayette Plumb the 2nd's remark:
"1942 -- 'Victory' finish introduced & for duration of WWII"

What exactly is this "Victory finish"? Judging from the drawings in the advertisements, my guess is an unpainted head and a thin red stain on the handles. In addition to a VICTORY stamp, if that's indeed what's shown in the ads.

Alongside my earlier uncertainty about the accuracy of people's recollections (including those of Mr. Plumb), I think that the start and stop years for a given marking could have some overlap with some earlier or later markings, especially since Plumb had two factory locations (Philadelphia and St. Louis). Wartime production might have also added some looseness around when the stamps were changed over.

 

[300Six]

There was probably a considerable time lag (6 months to a year?) between when a specific pattern (for instance New Jerseys) was set up for dedicated production in sizable batches, and when those heads were ultimately assembled, finished and delivered to retail outlets. After that, stock turnover more than likely took another year or two to fully sell out. Wouldn't surprise me if lesser known or not-so-popular Victory models were still on the shelves in smaller centres or rural stores right into the early 1950s.

gben you may have answered your own question about age of the double bit based solely on the Plumb stamp. 1938+/- or 1943-45 it isn't. What interests me as a consequence: are rounded corner Plumb stamps (such as on your double bit) of a different era than square cornered stamps (such as depicted in the Dec 1946 ad)?

 

[gben]

There was probably a considerable time lag (6 months to a year?) between when a specific pattern (for instance New Jerseys) was set up for dedicated production in sizable batches, and when those heads were ultimately assembled, finished and delivered to retail outlets. After that, stock turnover more than likely took another year or two to fully sell out. Wouldn't surprise me if lesser known or not-so-popular Victory models were still on the shelves in smaller centres or rural stores right into the early 1950s.

gben you may have answered your own question about age of the double bit based solely on the Plumb stamp. 1938+/- or 1943-45 it isn't. What interests me as a consequence: are rounded corner Plumb stamps (such as on your double bit) of a different era than square cornered stamps (such as depicted in the Dec 1946 ad)?

That is interesting about the rounded and square-corner Plumb stamps, another thing to look into. I agree that there could be all sorts of time lags and overlap, but all we can do on that is make educated guesses. With period literature and photos we at least can tell when Plumb was marketing and manufacturing various styles and markings.

As far as original handles vs. replacements, the most common-sense method is to take examples of tools that you Know have original handles, and examples of tools you Know have had handles replaced and compare their appearance, oxidation and patina. After examining so many dozens of examples of each along with referring to factory/period literature someone should be able to make educated guesses as to what was done at a factory and what was done by a home mechanic.

I have not done much with the internet since our short summer has begun here on the Great Lakes, but I certainly will put some more time into researching Plumb tools as I have picked up a few more of them this summer at local sales....