New EDC: Spyderco Tenacious, CIVIVI Dogma, or Ontario Rat I D2

[BJ987]

Lookin to buy a new "around-the-house" beater EDC. Never owned any of the above but have a couple CIVIVIs and more expensive Spyderco knives. All have kinda close blade lengths and kinda close price range $40-$60. Tenacious is 8CrMov18 while CIVIVI and Rat are D2. Tenacious is also most expensive... Would mostly be used for opening packages and breaking down cardboard.

 

[sabre cat]

Lookin to buy a new "around-the-house" beater EDC. Never owned any of the above but have a couple CIVIVIs and more expensive Spyderco knives. All have kinda close blade lengths and kinda close price range $40-$60. Tenacious is 8CrMov18 while CIVIVI and Rat are D2. Tenacious is also most expensive... Would mostly be used for opening packages and breaking down cardboard.

I have to go with the RAT in D2.

I like the blade steel and many of the features the knife has to offer.
The FFG blade and open pillar construction, just to name a couple.

About the only thing I am not to crazy about is the shape of the thumb stud.

Recently gave my RAT away to someone that lost everything he owned in the fires we have been having the past few years.

 

[knoefz]

As much as I like my Tenacious, the steel choice makes I'd prefer D2 in my knife with the options you presented.
The CIVIVI has a lot going for it imho, D2, both flipper and thumbhole, ceramic bearings, deep carry....

 

[Stairway]

If I were to use the knife heavily, it would be the Rat 1 as its shape is better than the Dogma in my hands for hard work, and the steel is better than the Spyderco’s. If I were to carry more than work, it would be the Dogma as it is noticeably lighter in weight than the other two, and its steel is better than the Spyderco’s.

 

[whp]

The Rat 1 is a well made fine work knife. A bit heavier than the Tenacious, but seems to be more strongly built. I ve never had a Civivi.
Generally I would rather carry an edc capable of more tasks, light and heavy.

 

[JokersFaceLifter]

While i abhor tool steels ill have to agree with the others and go for Rat 1

 

[midnight flyer]

Yeah, toss me in with the RAT vote. The Tenacious is a good knife, but for me the broad "leaf" design swallowed too much real estate in my pocket.

I think the RAT is a better fit in the hand for a user. I carried the original version in 8cr13etc for about three years nearly exclusively on the job site. Mine still locks up tight, carries well, and if you are going to use it as a work knife there is plenty of handle to use the knife comfortably.

Robert

 

[Insipid Moniker]

I almost hate to say it, but the CIVIVI is just a significantly better made knife than either of the others. Better materials, better construction, better cutting geometry. One important thing to note is that while the blade lengths are similar the Dogma carries and feels like a much smaller knife than the other two, which may be a pro or a con for you. It also has a very fine tip, ideal for precision cuts or piercing tasks, but also significantly less robust that the Tenacious or Rat 1 if you're going to pry or similar.

 

[BJ987]

As much as I like my Tenacious, the steel choice makes I'd prefer D2 in my knife with the options you presented.
The CIVIVI has a lot going for it imho, D2, both flipper and thumbhole, ceramic bearings, deep carry....

This^^

I almost hate to say it, but the CIVIVI is just a significantly better made knife than either of the others. Better materials, better construction, better cutting geometry. One important thing to note is that while the blade lengths are similar the Dogma carries and feels like a much smaller knife than the other two, which may be a pro or a con for you. It also has a very fine tip, ideal for precision cuts or piercing tasks, but also significantly less robust that the Tenacious or Rat 1 if you're going to pry or similar.

And this^^

Rat 1 is winning the vote, and it is the knife that I've always heard about but haven't got yet...and is also the knife that I can't find anywhere... Also, yes, the CIVIVI Dogma has a lot going for it, which is why I included it in my choices. Around same price as the Rat 1 in D2, but with G10, ball-bearings, dual-opening methods. I have plenty of longer knives. In fact, anyone who knows me on here knows I don't care for any knife under 3.5" (though I've hypocritically made exceptions in a few cases ).

The Tenacious is another knife I keep hearing about but never owned. I like everything about it but the steel and the price... though I've recently come to favor easier to sharpen vs. super edge retention. The pocket estate issue won't bother me.

I suppose I should have been more clear. This is a knife I will clip on the waistband of basketball shorts at most, more often than not will just sit somewhere for me to use to open packages and cut down cardboard boxes so I don't have to use my more expensive knives (in S30V, S35VN) mostly because I don't want to have to freaking sharpen them. I mentioned this but I recently realized how much of a pain sharpening is and I don't have a lot of free time. I also like to keep my knives razor sharp... So, it may be a lose-lose here... can't figure if it will take more time out of my life either: 1) having to sharpen the softer steels more frequently or 2) touching up harder steels less frequently.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

This^^

And this^^

Rat 1 is winning the vote, and it is the knife that I've always heard about but haven't got yet...and is also the knife that I can't find anywhere... Also, yes, the CIVIVI Dogma has a lot going for it, which is why I included it in my choices. Around same price as the Rat 1 in D2, but with G10, ball-bearings, dual-opening methods. I have plenty of longer knives. In fact, anyone who knows me on here knows I don't care for any knife under 3.5" (though I've hypocritically made exceptions in a few cases ).

The Tenacious is another knife I keep hearing about but never owned. I like everything about it but the steel and the price... though I've recently come to favor easier to sharpen vs. super edge retention. The pocket estate issue won't bother me.

I suppose I should have been more clear. This is a knife I will clip on the waistband of basketball shorts at most, more often than not will just sit somewhere for me to use to open packages and cut down cardboard boxes so I don't have to use my more expensive knives (in S30V, S35VN) mostly because I don't want to have to freaking sharpen them. I mentioned this but I recently realized how much of a pain sharpening is and I don't have a lot of free time. I also like to keep my knives razor sharp... So, it may be a lose-lose here... can't figure if it will take more time out of my life either: 1) having to sharpen the softer steels more frequently or 2) touching up harder steels less frequently.

If you want to clip it to basketball shorts I would go with the Dogma, hands down due to weight alone, with the Tenacious trailing a bit behind. The Rat 1 is a great knife, but if I clipped it to basketball shorts I would expect to have to pull up my pants pretty frequently.

 

[BJ987]

If you want to clip it to basketball shorts I would go with the Dogma, hands down due to weight alone, with the Tenacious trailing a bit behind. The Rat 1 is a great knife, but if I clipped it to basketball shorts I would expect to have to pull up my pants pretty frequently.

True, currently, I tend to clip my CIVIVI Baklash to my shorts for around the house stuff. I just hate the forward choil because it gets caught on cardboard and gets annoying... I just realized the Dogma has that same choil .

 

[powernoodle]

I don't own a CIVIVI. But as between the Tenacious and Rat 1, I would go with the latter. The Tenacious is a fine knife, and I think I own 3x of them along with every other model in that lineup, but there is just something about the Rat 1 that I really dig. It rides in pocket "better" than the Tenacious, i.e., is narrower, and the D2 is killer. It stays sharp forever. Almost.

 

[BJ987]

So, I know this doesn't pertain to this thread, but just arrived on my doorstep and wanted to share

 

[colin.p]

I almost hate to say it, but the CIVIVI is just a significantly better made knife than either of the others. Better materials, better construction, better cutting geometry. One important thing to note is that while the blade lengths are similar the Dogma carries and feels like a much smaller knife than the other two, which may be a pro or a con for you. It also has a very fine tip, ideal for precision cuts or piercing tasks, but also significantly less robust that the Tenacious or Rat 1 if you're going to pry or similar.

I must admit, that Dogma looks very nice. I've always wanted to try a Civivi knife but something or other always seemed to beat it out. Damn, so many knives, too little time (actually too little money and storage space).

 

[Cscotttsss]

I'm a huge Spyderco fanboi but out of those, I'd pick the Rat all day.

 

[whp]

So, I know this doesn't pertain to this thread, but just arrived on my doorstep and wanted to share

Well, you started out by listing there possible edc/beater knives. Now you show a new arrival that is one or two classes above those three. Put a strip of grip tape on both handles of the Code 4, and you ll have a beater that will be better than 90% of the work knives out there. Maybe 95%.
And I like the Tenacious and Rat 1. My Rat 1 is a limited run from a few years ago that has g10 handles as well as D2 steel. Good worker.

 

[Chronovore]

Lookin to buy a new "around-the-house" beater EDC... Tenacious is 8CrMov18 while CIVIVI and Rat are D2. Tenacious is also most expensive... Would mostly be used for opening packages and breaking down cardboard.

When cutting cardboard, a thin blade stock really shines. However, the Tenacious is a hard pass because it's radically overpriced for 8Cr13Mov. Don't encourage that trend with a purchase. While 8Cr13Mov is easier to sharpen, so are a lot of steels that will give you better performance for less money than a Tenacious. (An obvious example would be 14C28N.)

I don't have personal experience with the Dogma but you know Civivi in general is excellent. Another consideration is contact with sweat if you are clipping something inside of shorts. Remember that D2 has relatively low corrosion resistance. Another question is how you feel about sharpening Chinese D2.

Definitely consider the Tangram Santa Fe by Kizer. The size and shape are good for what you're talking about. The Acuto 440 has decent edge retention, good corrosion resistance, and isn't hard to sharpen. The thin blade is darling for cardboard. It's also much less expensive than a Tenacious.

 

[OrangeBlueOrangeBlue]

As much as I like my Tenacious, the steel choice makes I'd prefer D2 in my knife with the options you presented.
The CIVIVI has a lot going for it imho, D2, both flipper and thumbhole, ceramic bearings, deep carry....

IIRC, one of the things they do to get to the lower prices on Civivi models is using steel bearings instead of ceramic.

I almost hate to say it, but the CIVIVI is just a significantly better made knife than either of the others. Better materials, better construction, better cutting geometry. One important thing to note is that while the blade lengths are similar the Dogma carries and feels like a much smaller knife than the other two, which may be a pro or a con for you. It also has a very fine tip, ideal for precision cuts or piercing tasks, but also significantly less robust that the Tenacious or Rat 1 if you're going to pry or similar.

Civivi, and then some newer brands like CJRB and QSP, have really raised the bar on what is fair to expect in a sub-$50 knife. They put the cheap Chinese-made stuff by CRKT and Spyderco to shame. The liners on the first wave of Civivi models showed more care and attention than a lot of US-made Spydercos.

Lookin to buy a new "around-the-house" beater EDC. Never owned any of the above but have a couple CIVIVIs and more expensive Spyderco knives. All have kinda close blade lengths and kinda close price range $40-$60. Tenacious is 8CrMov18 while CIVIVI and Rat are D2. Tenacious is also most expensive... Would mostly be used for opening packages and breaking down cardboard.

Spyderco's website still shows the Tenacious with 8Cr13MoV, although there have been a lot of complaints now that you can get other Chinese-made knives with better quality and materials for less money. If they managed to use 9Cr18Mov at the same price, the Tenacious might take back it's place as a very recommendable budget option. The only way I'd recommend one at this point is if it's on sale for $20 at Wally or another big-box store (which is fairly common). 8Cr13MoV doesn't fly at $50 these days.

 

[BJ987]

Well, you started out by listing there possible edc/beater knives. Now you show a new arrival that is one or two classes above those three. Put a strip of grip tape on both handles of the Code 4, and you ll have a beater that will be better than 90% of the work knives out there. Maybe 95%.
And I like the Tenacious and Rat 1. My Rat 1 is a limited run from a few years ago that has g10 handles as well as D2 steel. Good worker.

EDIT: The Code 4 was a random post because it arrived right when I was viewing this thread. This is obviously subjective but I don't view my Code 4 as a beater! I still do my impulse buys on "higher-end" knives that I just want to maintain factory edge and use sparingly. I wanna EDC that bad boy, and I do plan on putting grip tape on it. The primary reason I slept on it for a long time is because of the aluminum scales.

Basically, this thread stems from my recent realization that I neither have the time or patience for regular sharpening or edge maintenance (mostly the time). I recently messed up the edge of one of my favorite, more expensive knives (American Lawman) while sharpening and drove me to search for a "beater" to use for daily house stuff that I won't care so much when I eventually have to run it through my newly acquired diamond rods on my Sharpmaker.
Anyway, I didn't mean to confuse. I am still looking for a real beater knife to regularly cut cardboard with. Quick post for now, got a little surprise for you guys (won't be so much a surprise for those who know me [@Chronovore ]. Maybe I'll get 2 out of the 3 and keep one in the car (don't have a "car knife" yet).

 

[soc_monki]

This^^

And this^^

Rat 1 is winning the vote, and it is the knife that I've always heard about but haven't got yet...and is also the knife that I can't find anywhere... Also, yes, the CIVIVI Dogma has a lot going for it, which is why I included it in my choices. Around same price as the Rat 1 in D2, but with G10, ball-bearings, dual-opening methods. I have plenty of longer knives. In fact, anyone who knows me on here knows I don't care for any knife under 3.5" (though I've hypocritically made exceptions in a few cases ).

The Tenacious is another knife I keep hearing about but never owned. I like everything about it but the steel and the price... though I've recently come to favor easier to sharpen vs. super edge retention. The pocket estate issue won't bother me.

I suppose I should have been more clear. This is a knife I will clip on the waistband of basketball shorts at most, more often than not will just sit somewhere for me to use to open packages and cut down cardboard boxes so I don't have to use my more expensive knives (in S30V, S35VN) mostly because I don't want to have to freaking sharpen them. I mentioned this but I recently realized how much of a pain sharpening is and I don't have a lot of free time. I also like to keep my knives razor sharp... So, it may be a lose-lose here... can't figure if it will take more time out of my life either: 1) having to sharpen the softer steels more frequently or 2) touching up harder steels less frequently.

Heh, you talking about a Tenacious and say you don't like blades under 3.5", you need a Resilience. After what I've put my Tenacious through, any of the Chinese spydercos get a thumbs up from me. People will complain about the 8cr13mov all day long but the fact of the matter is the heat treat is damn good and performs a lot better than you'd think.
Just one man's opinion though. Take it for what it's worth.