New fixed blade

MicroAlign said:
Kon,

In a hard use fixed blade, I prefer Sleipner or an equivalent high durability, low chromium, semi-stainless steel. I have chipped, rolled, bent, and broken knives in stainless steels like S30V, M390, S35VN, and ELMAX that were advertised as bushcraft blades but when they were actually put to practical bushcraft hard use they were damaged. I've found that Sleipner is very well suited to hard use blades, bordering on carbon steel strength and elasticity. Another great aspect of Sleipner strength is that you can have more efficient blade geometry, versus stainless hard use blades which are thick, obtuse pry-bars.

As for corrosion, the only issues I have experienced with Sleipner is hot summer pocket sweat which gets on my folding knives and causes some light rust spotting if I wear it all day and slack in my maintenance. Ive found that fixed blades are easier to keep maintained and corrosion free. I actually perform a forced patina on my Sleipner blades which turns the steel into a deeper blue, and makes it more rust resistant.
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You've bent, chipped, rolled and broken blades made of S30V, M390....Elmax!!!!
What's your problem? :DDDDDD
 
RamZar said:
If you want a smaller fixed blade with the great M390 stainless steel LionSteel has two: M4 (3.74") and M1 (2.91").

https://www.lionsteel.it/n/en/allproducts/_/m4?f_family_157=1&idcategory=189
https://www.lionsteel.it/n/en/allproducts/_/m1?f_family_157=1&idcategory=203
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I already own an M1 but its potential use isn't comparable with a 4" blade knife!
I also like the M4 but the new B40 has a more interesting design and the sheat too is much more a professional piece of art.
M4's sheat is "oldfashion"....that's why I would like such product made of a top class stainless steel....
At the end of the day the definitive solution would be "leave the customers the possibility to choose the same model in a carbon or in stainless steel versions"
It would be the perfection!
 
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Kon said:
I already own an M1 but its potential use isn't comparable with a 4" blade knife!
I also like the M4 but the new B40 has a more interesting design and the sheat too is much more a professional piece of art.
M4's sheat is "oldfashion"....that's why I would like such product made of a top class stainless steel....
At the end of the day the definitive solution would be "leave the customers the possibility to choose the same model in a carbon or in stainless steel version"
It would be the perfection!
Click to expand...
 
Kon,

I have absolutely damaged blades in just general outdoor use. Feathering and scraping wood shavings can really test the limits of a steel, and I've found that high vanadium steels tend to chip the edge when performing this task especially against harder woods like bamboo. Batoning wood with a knife can also push its limits, but it is a necessary survival task.
 
If you want your knife to keep on looking pristine, Sleipner is not the best option, as it's susceptible to pitting. Using it also would not be a good option.
But, if you plan on using your knife, not minding any scratches or wear over time, Sleipner properties are great, and the pitting is comparable to just another scratch.
 
Here is a pic from Sleipner pitting on one of my Lionsteels under and 8x magnifier glass.
6xSOyiN.jpg

Wipe your blade after use.

Edit: not Lionsteel's factory convex edge - it's been reprofiled
 
I started using Sleipner steel in 2015, and have lived in the harsh Mississippi environment for most of that time. When I have encountered corrosion on Sleipner, it has usually been a result of failure in maintenance. Failing to clean off the blade after cutting into food, skinning an animal and failing to clean it, or letting body sweat stay on the blade are examples of times when the blade has started to show rust over a period of time.

Sleipner steel is probably not for everyone. If you are the type of knife owner that has sharpening scratches all over the flat of your blade, and want to have a knife that you can take out, use it, and then put it away and not think about it again until it needs to be used again then those knife owners would be better off with something more corrosion resistant. If you are the type of knife owner that cannot stand blade flat scratches and will refinish the blade to remove them, and it must always have a uniform razor honed edge, then those knife owners will have NO trouble maintaining blades in D2 or Sleipner. Most of the LionSteel guys are like this, probably why they like to use Sleipner.

I like Sleipner because it gives me the desirable benefits of high carbon steel, while giving me a reasonable level of corrosion resistance. I find it to be on par with the shock absorption, tensile strength, and elasticity of 1095 steel which can be used in everything from axes to Kukris. Only it has greater edge retention than 1095, and MUCH better corrosion resistance. Sharpening is also significantly easier than common stainless steels such as S30V or S35VN, especially if you have to use less than ideal natural stones or even a kitchen steel. Sharpening M390 on a natural stone is annoying by comparison.
 
MicroAlign said:
What do you intend to do with the knife? Survival? What kind of environment?
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I’m simply looking for alternative look to the two brand models I mentioned that simple. An outside fixed blade Bowie approx 5!inches something similar to
Darkntimber 1911 or Hinderer ranch Bowie . Possibly something approx 100 or more less money.

Truley simple questions thy doesn’t need a lot of explaination. If anyone knows a comparable fixed blade fixed it would be most appreciated
 
Kon said:
You've bent, chipped, rolled and broken blades made of S30V, M390....Elmax!!!!
What's your problem? :DDDDDD
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From quality makers that just sounds so hard to believe? I’d have to see pics to believe that just sounds like where missing a part of a story ? No dissrespect just those steels don’t roll if done correctly
 
SpandexxHotWife said:
From quality makers that just sounds so hard to believe? I’d have to see pics to believe that just sounds like where missing a part of a story ? No dissrespect just those steels don’t roll if done correctly
Click to expand...

M390:
-Benchmade 552 Ritter: The edge bent laterally from batoning a 1.5" cedar branch. I requested that BM replace it with their previous generation 552 in S30V steel which they did. In an apples to apples comparison, my older 552 in S30V and the newer 552 in S30V had no trouble batoning similar branches with no damage.
-Bradford Guardian 4: While using the knife to debone a white tail deer, I noticed that a large chip was on the edge near the point. It was severe enough not to be corrected via sharpening. Bradford replaced the knife and I traded it in 2014.
(M390 is a great cutting steel, not so great for chopping or high impact applications like survival knife batoning)

S90V:
-Benchmade 940-1: While cutting the clear thermal plastic from a package I notice that the once razor edge on the blade no longer shaved hair after the tiny cutting task. I looked under a magnifying glass and noticed severe chipping all along the edge. After resharpening(which takes forever on S90V) to a razor hone, I performed cutting tests on the same plastic, cut feather wood shavings on white oak, and even cut 16 gauge copper wire. All tests significantly dulled or chipped the edge, which M390 had no trouble cutting. I returned the knife to benchmade thinking that it had a heat treat problem, and they sent me another. Same problems occurred with the new knife which I traded.
(S90V seems to be significantly more brittle than M390)

S30V:
-Benchmade 162 Bushcraft: Great knife, until you have to perform some abrasive wood scraping on bamboo or oak. Then the edge chips severely.
-Becker 7: The 7" blade had to have a very obtuse edge profile to resist chipping. During baton work, I had about a 1mm chip on the belly of the blade which I was able to painstakingly remove.
(S30V is tougher than M390, but still more of a cutting steel)

ELMAX:
-ZeroTolerance 0560: Edge rolled during wood scraping test. Returned it to ZT as I had read about some heat treat problems with ZT and ELMAX. ZT returned the knife to me stating that it had passed their heat treat tests. I traded the knife.
-Spyderco Mule: I still have this knife. It appears that the steel and HT is well done here, but it still dulls more quickly than I would like during scraping tests.

S35VN:
-Bark River Bravo-1: Edge rolled quickly during wood scraping tests. Returned the knife to BR for HT problems. I received the new sample and it still rolled easily. Sold it off.
-Chris Reeves Sebenza 21: Bent blade edge during batoning similar to what I experienced with the BM 552 in M390. CRK replaced the knife, but I was not confident that the hollow blade grinds could hold up so I sold it.
-Chris Reeves Sebenza 25: So far, an excellent knife that is holding up well. The edge can get a little chippy in heavy scraping, but not too bad. The large hollow blade grinds definitely help with strength.

I have owned many, many other knives in various steels over the decades. The ones above are considered to be some of the more popular "premium" stainless steels out there today which is why I referenced them. I have also broken and damaged other types of steels as well. All knives have their specific purpose, in specific environments, and specific scenarios. What steel is appropriate depends on your own personal circumstances. Generally I prefer the strength of lower chromium steels which tend to be easier to heat treat correctly, and they have measurably better overall strength when subjected to high stress use. Higher chromium steels certainly have their place, and appeal for many situations.
 
MicroAlign said:
M390:
-Benchmade 552 Ritter: The edge bent laterally from batoning a 1.5" cedar branch. I requested that BM replace it with their previous generation 552 in S30V steel which they did. In an apples to apples comparison, my older 552 in S30V and the newer 552 in S30V had no trouble batoning similar branches with no damage.
-Bradford Guardian 4: While using the knife to debone a white tail deer, I noticed that a large chip was on the edge near the point. It was severe enough not to be corrected via sharpening. Bradford replaced the knife and I traded it in 2014.
(M390 is a great cutting steel, not so great for chopping or high impact applications like survival knife batoning)

S90V:
-Benchmade 940-1: While cutting the clear thermal plastic from a package I notice that the once razor edge on the blade no longer shaved hair after the tiny cutting task. I looked under a magnifying glass and noticed severe chipping all along the edge. After resharpening(which takes forever on S90V) to a razor hone, I performed cutting tests on the same plastic, cut feather wood shavings on white oak, and even cut 16 gauge copper wire. All tests significantly dulled or chipped the edge, which M390 had no trouble cutting. I returned the knife to benchmade thinking that it had a heat treat problem, and they sent me another. Same problems occurred with the new knife which I traded.
(S90V seems to be significantly more brittle than M390)

S30V:
-Benchmade 162 Bushcraft: Great knife, until you have to perform some abrasive wood scraping on bamboo or oak. Then the edge chips severely.
-Becker 7: The 7" blade had to have a very obtuse edge profile to resist chipping. During baton work, I had about a 1mm chip on the belly of the blade which I was able to painstakingly remove.
(S30V is tougher than M390, but still more of a cutting steel)

ELMAX:
-ZeroTolerance 0560: Edge rolled during wood scraping test. Returned it to ZT as I had read about some heat treat problems with ZT and ELMAX. ZT returned the knife to me stating that it had passed their heat treat tests. I traded the knife.
-Spyderco Mule: I still have this knife. It appears that the steel and HT is well done here, but it still dulls more quickly than I would like during scraping tests.

S35VN:
-Bark River Bravo-1: Edge rolled quickly during wood scraping tests. Returned the knife to BR for HT problems. I received the new sample and it still rolled easily. Sold it off.
-Chris Reeves Sebenza 21: Bent blade edge during batoning similar to what I experienced with the BM 552 in M390. CRK replaced the knife, but I was not confident that the hollow blade grinds could hold up so I sold it.
-Chris Reeves Sebenza 25: So far, an excellent knife that is holding up well. The edge can get a little chippy in heavy scraping, but not too bad. The large hollow blade grinds definitely help with strength.

I have owned many, many other knives in various steels over the decades. The ones above are considered to be some of the more popular "premium" stainless steels out there today which is why I referenced them. I have also broken and damaged other types of steels as well. All knives have their specific purpose, in specific environments, and specific scenarios. What steel is appropriate depends on your own personal circumstances. Generally I prefer the strength of lower chromium steels which tend to be easier to heat treat correctly, and they have measurably better overall strength when subjected to high stress use. Higher chromium steels certainly have their place, and appeal for many situations.
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I don't doubt it. Those high carbide steels are great for edge retention but have less toughness than many other steels. AEB-L seems to be fairly durable if you want stainless.
 
MicroAlign said:
M390:
-Benchmade 552 Ritter: The edge bent laterally from batoning a 1.5" cedar branch. I requested that BM replace it with their previous generation 552 in S30V steel which they did. In an apples to apples comparison, my older 552 in S30V and the newer 552 in S30V had no trouble batoning similar branches with no damage.
-Bradford Guardian 4: While using the knife to debone a white tail deer, I noticed that a large chip was on the edge near the point. It was severe enough not to be corrected via sharpening. Bradford replaced the knife and I traded it in 2014.
(M390 is a great cutting steel, not so great for chopping or high impact applications like survival knife batoning)

S90V:
-Benchmade 940-1: While cutting the clear thermal plastic from a package I notice that the once razor edge on the blade no longer shaved hair after the tiny cutting task. I looked under a magnifying glass and noticed severe chipping all along the edge. After resharpening(which takes forever on S90V) to a razor hone, I performed cutting tests on the same plastic, cut feather wood shavings on white oak, and even cut 16 gauge copper wire. All tests significantly dulled or chipped the edge, which M390 had no trouble cutting. I returned the knife to benchmade thinking that it had a heat treat problem, and they sent me another. Same problems occurred with the new knife which I traded.
(S90V seems to be significantly more brittle than M390)

S30V:
-Benchmade 162 Bushcraft: Great knife, until you have to perform some abrasive wood scraping on bamboo or oak. Then the edge chips severely.
-Becker 7: The 7" blade had to have a very obtuse edge profile to resist chipping. During baton work, I had about a 1mm chip on the belly of the blade which I was able to painstakingly remove.
(S30V is tougher than M390, but still more of a cutting steel)

ELMAX:
-ZeroTolerance 0560: Edge rolled during wood scraping test. Returned it to ZT as I had read about some heat treat problems with ZT and ELMAX. ZT returned the knife to me stating that it had passed their heat treat tests. I traded the knife.
-Spyderco Mule: I still have this knife. It appears that the steel and HT is well done here, but it still dulls more quickly than I would like during scraping tests.

S35VN:
-Bark River Bravo-1: Edge rolled quickly during wood scraping tests. Returned the knife to BR for HT problems. I received the new sample and it still rolled easily. Sold it off.
-Chris Reeves Sebenza 21: Bent blade edge during batoning similar to what I experienced with the BM 552 in M390. CRK replaced the knife, but I was not confident that the hollow blade grinds could hold up so I sold it.
-Chris Reeves Sebenza 25: So far, an excellent knife that is holding up well. The edge can get a little chippy in heavy scraping, but not too bad. The large hollow blade grinds definitely help with strength.

I have owned many, many other knives in various steels over the decades. The ones above are considered to be some of the more popular "premium" stainless steels out there today which is why I referenced them. I have also broken and damaged other types of steels as well. All knives have their specific purpose, in specific environments, and specific scenarios. What steel is appropriate depends on your own personal circumstances. Generally I prefer the strength of lower chromium steels which tend to be easier to heat treat correctly, and they have measurably better overall strength when subjected to high stress use. Higher chromium steels certainly have their place, and appeal for many situations.
Click to expand...

What edge angles are we talking about here? Anything under 20dps is not suited for the uses you describe, and I would suggest you even stay over 25dps for things like scraping.
 
microbe said:
What edge angles are we talking about here? Anything under 20dps is not suited for the uses you describe, and I would suggest you even stay over 25dps for things like scraping.
Click to expand...

Most of those blades were sharpened on an Edge Pro Apex 4 system with an edge angle of approximately 20 degrees for cutting blades, and around 27 degrees for my higher stress survival blades. I've found that anything over 27 degrees has trouble with serving as a general purposing knife for tasks ranging from bush craft to animal processing. This is why I prefer to use higher durability steels and keep a more acute edge angle around 25.

One of my best survival knives is a custom Damascus carbon steel bowie with a Rockwell hardness of 61. It will scrape any wood, even Teak wood with no chipping or rolling at an edge angle of 20 degrees making it an excellent slicer too. You just can't get that from a high chrome, high vanadium steel without sacrificing edge angle, blade grind, or heat treat hardness.
 
Kon said:
Wow....maybe someone at Lionsteel should explain why the same knife costs, in the US, less than in Italy....153.95 are 137.06 €....Nice policy !
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Taxes maybe? It costs more to buy domestically produced gasoline in the USA than to buy the same exported gas in Mexico due to all the imbedded taxes.
 
LionSteel Bushcraft is €160.00 on the LionSteel website probably due to VAT.

An Italian knife dealer near Milan has it for €131.15 but I don't know if that includes VAT.
 
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