New Hybrid Viper EO Teardrop

This knife isn't a traditionally constucted knife. But it is a traditionally styled knife. On a balance sheet, the imaginary fella from the '20s or '60s would open and use this knife without a second thought. The Viper Teardrops presence here will not ruin the porch. Perhaps it will draw more new people into the realm.
 
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Whether or not the knife fits "traditional" is really only relevant to this forum. Didn't this same discussion occur in an earlier topic? I think I gave my opinion in an earlier topic. My opinion is that the pattern is what mostly defines a knife as traditional. Just my own opinion.

It is the most interesting new traditional knife I've seen in 2018 ;) ...possibly 2017 as well. :) Very few examples of knives pushing boundaries but I think there will be a lot of growth.

Looks great to me! :thumbsup:
 
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I had to laugh at the irony in these two posts.

The term is peon, meaning someone of low rank.

The term pee on, referring to persons of lower stature would be an insult and aggressive, and completely disregarding the passive part.

I know this wasn't intended, and no insult was meant, as I am fairly certain that you meant it in the way that "peon" is defined.
Good point, and well taken. I'll tap out now, and admit I'm probably off base and maybe went over the line here...
 
Here are some old knives that are pushing present day boundaries long ago.

melon tester with a shirt pocket clip:
T17g8bN.jpg


pen knife with "ears" patented in 1892 by Walter William Pellet
TbiqvyF.jpg

MufNCzP.jpg



I found my posts from the earlier topic and thought I'd put them here as well since they show some examples...


"Here's one example of an old shadow easy opener..."

Abnzkqj.jpg


"Here's one made in the USA..."

W4KyfRB.jpg


"I'd need to dig for that patent but sounds right about the patent, Lloyd.

Regarding Mike's knife...

Patterns are typically defined by handle shape and blades. In some cases, the handle alone defines the pattern. For example a Wharncliffe knife is defined by the shape of the handle and doesn't always have a Wharncliffe blade. And the big bolster differentiates a barlow from a regular jack.

Mike's knife is pretty much straight up "Easy Opener" with the twist that it's also a "shadow". Knives without any bolsters are "shadow" patterns (2nd down on the left). It's a "shadow" version of an "Easy Opener" (3rd from the bottom in the middle column). If it didn't have the easy open notch, it would be a "swell end jack" (3rd column).

For some reason, knives without bolsters seem to get lumped in as sodbusters or modern knives. For example, I don't think the "Proper" is a sodbuster at all but it often gets compared to one. I'm not sure what it is.

I do think Mike's knife is traditional. I know what pattern it is."

mxR7OXe.jpg
 
I wonder how many folks just fainted or threw their phone...
Ears?!
Pocket Clip?!
The whole world has gone untraditional!

Lol, ;):D

In all seriousness, those are some gorgeous knives, especially the Pellet. I will be keeping an eye out for one of those. Hopefully I will stumble upon one.
Thank you for the education.
 
Haha! :D

I think Mike is ahead of the curve and what he is doing makes a lot of sense... so much sense it's difficult to believe the market has been pretty much wide open for so long. But knives like the "Proper" were fairly lazy attempts in my opinion. I'm not saying the "Proper" is a bad knife (never seen one except in photos) but it is an uninspired design. Mike is undoubtedly more immersed in traditional knives than whoever designed the "Proper".

I think this knife will be very popular. In fact, I'd go ahead and start making a dogleg pattern as well. The "controversy" over traditional/modern interpretations of the knife will only make these knives that much more interesting. But that's just fluff. There are real benefits for folks who buy traditional knives to use.... easy to clean open back and screw construction... "super steel"...handle and blade shape that have proven their utility for well over 100 years.
 
supratentorial supratentorial
Great points, but I have slightly differing preferences with one minute part, the Dogleg.

I would love to see a full size Sodbuster or if they can manage a multiple bladed knife, a Sowbelly.

That being said, I think the DAN system could fit on a Saddlehorn nicely, while offering some nice ergos. But along those lines comes the Dogleg (ala GEC #48).
 
Jake's catalogue picture of that Anglo-Saxon pattern sets my pulse racing..:cool: Let's try that with skeleton construction:)
 
Anyone else notice they designed the pocket clip on the melon tester to look like a miniature melon baller?

Here are some old knives that are pushing present day boundaries long ago.

melon tester with a shirt pocket clip:
T17g8bN.jpg


pen knife with "ears" patented in 1892 by Walter William Pellet
TbiqvyF.jpg

MufNCzP.jpg



I found my posts from the earlier topic and thought I'd put them here as well since they show some examples...


"Here's one example of an old shadow easy opener..."

Abnzkqj.jpg




mxR7OXe.jpg
 
Oops. I had serpentine jack (or reverse dogleg) in mind when I mistakenly said "dogleg". If I recall correctly, that's the #56 pattern at GEC. Anglo-Saxon and sowbelly are good choices. You can pretty much pick the most highly collected or valuable old patterns and have great success. Of course, as a dealer he also has a particularly good idea of the best selling patterns among newly manufactured knives.
 
I wonder what knife users of the time thought of this innovative design when it came out.
They probably thought... cool!
It has a one piece aluminum frame, covered backspring, no center liner, it does not look like your average Barlow. But, to me it's obvious that it is a Barlow.
It might not fit the strictest rule, but I still think it's traditional enough to not be excluded.
Advancements in construction and materials will always be part of tradition, if only a footnote.
qaaMNgX.jpg


Y83eZa9.jpg
 
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Well, that Queen design stopped a lot of dirt getting in there I suppose :D Bit like those wheel arch covers cars used to have in the 40s/50s quite cool though:thumbsup:
 
Anyone else notice they designed the pocket clip on the melon tester to look like a miniature melon baller?

Could be. Or ice-cream scoop or coke-spoon. :D Whatever, it is a very nice design touch on an unusual knife, still would fail the pocket clip rule though!:)
 
Well;) yes & no :D You could argue that is was an embellishment that didn't catch on in Traditionals (not seen another like it) so it did not become common currency. The 'rule' came into being because the pocket clip got clearly associated with modern or tactical types of knife. I wouldn't want a Tortoiseshell Penknife getting its pile side half obscured by some clip :eek::D

Likewise, if stainless or micarta hadn't become an accepted norm in 'Traditionals' that too could be 'ruled' against. Mind you, I harbour suspicions that some relic types probably still secretly dream of carrying out ethnic cleansing against stainless knives:eek:

So it actually proves that debating about what may or may not become accepted as 'traditional' is a worthwhile exercise and not a waste of time or abstraction. Nothing remains unchanged, nor written in stone-otherwise we'd still be using stone knives.:eek: One 'tradition' best left to museums....
 
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That's a really interesting example :thumbsup: Captive springs are actually much older than that Queen barlow. I asked Levine about them a while back and he gave some interesting history...even comparing it to the Buck 110...

"The most successful captive spring design, from 1963, was not patented. Also does not have a closed back, although the spring is internal.
It is the BUCK 110 combination of rocker bar (aka lever) lock with a captive spring acting only on the lever, not directly on the blade.
A brilliant design. Widely copied since then."

Remington 'Dollar' knives are junior size stock knives with the whole frame and bolsters made in one piece, stamped and folded up.

They are marked PAT APPLD FOR, but Remington never did get a patent for this... at least not that anyone has found yet.

I don't know who made that M & G. Possibly Ulster, but that is just a guess.

The reason for a closed back with captive springs is to simplify assembly.
Also, the center spring rivet moves up and down with the spring, and will break the handle covers if they are on too tight. Eliminating that center rivet removes that weakness.

Over the years there were many patents for closed back pocketknives, with and without captive springs.

The most successful captive spring design, from 1963, was not patented. Also does not have a closed back, although the spring is internal.
It is the BUCK 110 combination of rocker bar (aka lever) lock with a captive spring acting only on the lever, not directly on the blade.
A brilliant design. Widely copied since then.

BRL...

Here's a covered back spring on an antique Maher & Grosh Colorado stock knife
3XbPzq8.jpg


9fk87Xs.jpg
 
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I have been toying with the idea of custom scales and using the lanyard hole to attach a pocket clip.
:eek::rolleyes::confused:
 
Interesting informative discussion, thanks contributors. the thing that matters most to me is quality, value, & feel. CK is killing it with these hybrids. I love my Roundhead, excited for the Shuffler and Viper EO. I have some terrific knifes, but keep returning to that Roundhead...
 
Jake, one of those back covered Maher & Grosh knives was being passed around at the rendezvous picnic, Bill found it very interesting. It was fun to see the wheels turn in Bills head:eek::D
 
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