New Lionsteel knife: M4

Thank you all for the kind words; 4mer_FMF, I tried to resharpen the blade, as I thought that might resolve the asymmetry in the blade - it didn't. Yeah, LionSteel replaced that knife with a new one (they could have refused to do so, blaming me for regrinding the edge, or tried to repair it by resharpening).

This one will be a safe qeen for now, replacing a Fallkniven F1 3G (limited edition). I have a pattern (as a steel snob that I am), where I buy a knife I like in a premium steel; when I find another one that I think it's better, I replace that one with the later, and can experience first hand what was so special about that steel.

Also, this M4 would fill the role of a backup blade in a survival kit - I have lots of other knives I use, from my old trusty Cold Steel Bushman to 7 Tramontina machetes, a kukri, some Mora's, a Buck 184, Fallkniven A1, H.Roselli, and so on...

That's why I am waiting for you guys to review the performance of this knife/steel, as I have (not :D) too many knives that I can use (not to mention a truck spring that awaits the warm embrace of fire, a steady hammer and an anvil).

So...the ball is in your court now :).

Also, really interested about the follow up regarding the problems Zero Sum had with his sample. I wish he got that solved out...
 
Got my LionSteel M4 a couple of days ago and love it so far! The blade shape is just sexy yet really useful, the grip feels great in hand, and it is small & light enough to being carried everywhere. The sheath is a big plus in that regard - one of the best production leather sheaths I've seen (crossdraw would have been a plus though). And I love the walnut handle - I've just put some linseed oil on it, and it looks great! Fit and finish are great, nothing to complain about in that department. Overall this might as well be my favorite fixed blade at the moment!

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Received an M4 in Cocobolo just last week and I have to say I'm pretty impressed. I usually prefer a thinner blade, especially on a knife with a blade less than 4", but it doesn't seem too thick to be able to slice well. Stock edge was nice and sharp and the handles well-fitted. Tiny gaps here and there between tang and scales, but none big enough I could get my fingernail in. And that sheath is just wow! Knife fits perfectly and the strap keeps it very snug. Best leather fixed-blade sheath I've had!
I'm tempted to thin out the edge a little more, but I want to use it a little more with the stock edge first to see how it handles a few different tasks. Does very well whittling for sure and has held a decent sharpness without any touchups so far. Overall a fantastic knife!
 
Please take a look at the black & white drawing I made in MS Paint ; now, do a exercise of imagination and sharpen that tip - would the edge width be the same on the left and the right side ? If the blade is not of the same thickness on the left side from the right (if using a imagenary axis of symmetry), you cannot obtain the same edge width. EXAMPLE : You have an egg ; you turn it with it's tip to the right (so the "fat" bottom is on your left side). Now, you want to "sharpen" the egg, at least it's new "top" - GIVEN YOU USE THE SAME AGLE ON THE LEFT AND RIGHT SIDE, WOULD THE RESULTING EDGE BE THE SAME WIDTH ?!

That is my problem with my sample - it's not the missaligned edge. It cannot be resolved with a proper sharpening. In order to make the blade symmetric, I would have to do what LionSteel didnt : to use a belt grinder and thin out the left side of the blade.

For the last time, people...please understand that, SOMETIMES, the manufacturer fukcs up ! I wish I wasn't the one to experience that, but I DO. They have a problem with the quality control - as you admited you had asymmetrical tips/edges from LionSteel (even if you could repaired them).

If I could not made myself understood it's my fault - english is not my native language, and I lack the vocabulary needed to be more specific. But the problem is there, I do have a defective/blemished blade ; I'm glad others don't experienced the problem I have, yet I felt the need to issue a warning - for me, buying a LionSteel product was a lottery, and I was the loser.


You showed and explained perfectly. There is no doubt it was defect.
 
After a LONG time... I need to ask for some info from users that actually USE their knives (LionSteel M4 in particularly) ; I need to do this as my M4 is a "safe queen".

What I am concerned about is the heat treatment of the M390 steel done by LionSteel (on their website, the stated HRC is 59-60), as most users/custom makers state that the best heat treatment for M390 would be oil quenching (I bet LionSteel is using 5 bar air/gas quenching, as M4 is a mass-produced item), second hardening (without the need for a cryo) and in the range of 61,5 - 62 HRC.

Has anyone tested the Rockwell hardness of their M4 ? If it's in the 59 HRC range, the HT would not be optimal for the M390 (someone stated on this forum that at 62 HRC, it would cut TWICE as much as in the 59-60 HRC range), behaving more like a decent HT-ed S35VN...
 
You bet wrong.

M390 cost around 10 more time than a conventional steel. So at this point need to save money for HT?

M390 in vacuum...
 
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Mr. Pensato, thank you for your reply. I don't think you need an introduction, as the man behind LionSteel's heat treatment and designer of many models, including M4.

From the start, I must state that it was not my intention to do harm to your name or LionSteel's brand; I am though, intrigued about the HT of the M390 steel used in M4 model, because from what I could gather (and, to my knowledge, the general consensus) is that Bohler's M390 really shines at 61,5 - 62 HRC (as in...best compromise between edge retention, toughness, edge stability, etc.). If it is of great importance, I can look for links regarding my statements - one being that, at 62 HRC, the same steel (M390) would hold an edge TWICE as the same steel at 59 HRC... (just ask and I'll spend the time to do it)

Also, if it is not an industrial/personal secret, could you give us more details about the heat treatment process used for M4 ?

What was the reason for choosing a HT that "only" takes the blade to a 59-60 HRC ? Isn't it too low for such a high-end steel like M390 ? Was the HT chosen based on more toughness and corrosion resistance, in the detriment of edge holding ability?

You, sir, are one of the (if not, the one) persons who can answer all the questions above.

As for the fact that M390 cost around 10x more than a conventional steel, and there is no point to save money on the HT... It sounds logical - until it is proven wrong. NOT YOUR CASE, mind you, I am not implying this!... but, I have learned about knives (clones, originals) made by Chinese manufacturers in premium steels like S35VN, M390, etc. that are HT like crap! They too used a premium steel and "saved money" on the HT part. Idiotic, I know, BUT REAL.

In the end, I reiterate : I did not intended to offend you or harm LionSteel brand; I just look for answers (and I think I'm not the only one).

Kind regards from Romania.
 
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