New Member (stupid questions...)

J

Jonathan BRG

Joined
Oct 11, 2019
Messages
38
Hey Everyone....

My name is Jonathan.
I live in the Shenandoah Valley in VA.
Ive been a craftsman and builder for over 30 years.....and I just got into knifemaking.

One of my younger lead guys got into it and was making his start using less than ideal tools in my shop.
I didn’t even bother messing around till I bought some decent gear and supplies.

Having a lot of fun.
(Kind of addicted.
I’ve been blowing off work to hang in my shop and learn to grind.....)


So......
I’ve made two complete knives.
One...I rushed through because I wanted it for a specific purpose (gutting deer for archery season), and I knew going through all the steps would give me a lot of understanding.
Second one....a better attempt ...a bit less rushed. (I’m an impatient guy by nature.)

First newb question....
I built a MAP gas forge.
Bought a heavy duty torch for it.
And started to heat treat.

I’m having an issue keeping my blanks evenly heated.
(Just did three kitchen knives a few hours ago.)
I get non-magnetic in any specific area that I want, but am not able to keep an entire blank at the correct “color” right up to quench.

Not sure why...

I’m also not sure if I’m achieving proper hardness.

I’ve tried the file test.
I can’t tell exactly by that method.

I’ve sharpened a couple and they seem fine...but I haven’t used them enough to tell.

Knowing me...I’m going to order a couple propane Venturi burners and upgrade the forge to two burners.....
But it seems like people use the type of forge I made all the time with good results.

Any clue what I’m doing wrong?
(Maybe I’m overthinking it and everything is fine, but I would like more certainty in the process.)

((Also....if anyone could guide me through posting pics from my iPhone, I would greatly appreciate it. ))

Thanks in advance for any advice.
Regards,

Jonathan
 
Lots of questions.

What kind of steels are you using in what kind of dimensions?
Are you forging at all or is it all stock removal?
Are you just placing the blade in the forge and leaving it there or are you moving the blade to heat all areas evenly?
What kind of normalizing/thermal cycles are you doing to the blades?
What is your quench medium (commercial engineered quench oil, cooking oil, used motor oil/tranny fluid, brine, water, plates, unicorn blood)?
What is your tempering method? What temps are you using?
How are you sharpening them (belt sander, stones)?
 
i4Marc said:
Lots of questions.

What kind of steels are you using in what kind of dimensions?
Are you forging at all or is it all stock removal?
Are you just placing the blade in the forge and leaving it there or are you moving the blade to heat all areas evenly?
What kind of normalizing/thermal cycles are you doing to the blades?
What is your quench medium (commercial engineered quench oil, cooking oil, used motor oil/tranny fluid, brine, water, plates, unicorn blood)?
What is your tempering method? What temps are you using?
How are you sharpening them (belt sander, stones)?
Click to expand...


I’m using O1 and 1095 right now.
(Stupid Damascus questions coming soon....)

Stock removal only.

Moving the blade.
Different speeds, angles, distances from the torch tip.

No normalizing.

Large ammo can of canola.
About 2 1/2 gals.
(One of the many things I picked up surfing this site)

Tempering in my oven in a half sheet filled with sand.

Just bought the KME system.
Arrives Monday.
(Unhappy with my whetstone work....
Need more precision. )

((Also using Brownells anti-scale))

Thanks for taking the time.
I really appreciate it.

So much to understand ...

So much knowledge here.
 
Easiest way to post pictures will be through a photo hosting website, most of which have an app for iPhone and Android. I use Flickr, but there's also Imgur, imageshack, and several others. The apps should all let you upload directly from your phone, and then there will be a "share" button on the hosted picture. From there you can copy the image link that it gives you, or copy and paste the appropriate code.
 
i4Marc said:
Lots of questions.

What kind of steels are you using in what kind of dimensions?
Are you forging at all or is it all stock removal?
Are you just placing the blade in the forge and leaving it there or are you moving the blade to heat all areas evenly?
What kind of normalizing/thermal cycles are you doing to the blades?
What is your quench medium (commercial engineered quench oil, cooking oil, used motor oil/tranny fluid, brine, water, plates, unicorn blood)?
What is your tempering method? What temps are you using?
How are you sharpening them (belt sander, stones)?
Click to expand...


I’m using O1 and 1095 right now.
(Stupid Damascus questions coming soon....)

Stock removal only.

Moving the blade.
Different speeds, angles, distances from the torch tip.

No normalizing.

Large ammo can of canola.
About 2 1/2 gals.
(One of the many things I picked up surfing this site)

Tempering in my oven in a half sheet filled with sand.

Just bought the KME system.
Arrives Monday.
(Unhappy with my whetstone work....
Need more precision. )

((Also using Brownells anti-scale))

Thanks for taking the time.
I really appreciate it.

So much to understand ...

So much knowledge here.
 
This what i use. I dont HT many knives but this works for me every time. It might give you some ideas. It has multiple small burners at different heights. In the middle is a steel pipe that i heat up and inside you put the piece you want to HT. So indirect heat only. A thermo thingie goes to the inside of the pipe so you know how hot it is inside. You can make it bigger with more powerfull burners. This one is vertical but you can make it horizonal. Whatever works best for you. Maybe it helps! Good luck and keep going!!!
wYdVR18.jpg


G0KrDXC.jpg
 
FYI: I just see a broken link icon for the above post, but "open image in New tab" brings up the photo on flicker.

I'm very much the novice so take this with a grain of salt, but I had better luck when someone suggested angling the torch so the flame swirled around.
My forge-like object is just a two brick forge, so interior is both smaller and cylindrical, and I moved the torch so it came in the near the top but at still horizontally... almost at a tangent (Think squirrel cage blower, but in reverse, if that helps). I also angled it a bit when looking from the top, so the flame travelled down the length by default. It looks like the torch is aimed right at the center of yours, and perhaps the torch is not enough for the volume inside? Others will know better, but it seems like a lot of space, so you're not getting less direct heat so much. Don't think I could fit most kitchen knives in my 2bf, though.

I'm interested in trying the pipe inside and a thermocouple, get a bit more control - or at least insight.

On a side note, something you'll see recommended here is using specific steels that are happy with simple, no soak heat treating, which 1095 isn't so much. 1084, 1080+, 15n20 are what I've seen suggested, and I've had nice, easy results making tool blades and a from couple knives from the first two.

Checking with file... try running a rather fine file over a sample of steel you know is annealed using little pressure, and compare it with steel you know is hard, perhaps below the teeth on a second file (I think the tangs themselves might be tempered on some files, though not sure). listen to the sound on addition to the feeling. A higher, slightly ringing like pitch ound on the hard steel.

How did the anti scale work? I tried a thin layer of refractory cement on my second knife but it was a bit of a pain and questionable benefits, at least how I did it.
 
48886459968_082e1a264b_z.jpg


(Here's the pic OP was linking to)
 
Last edited:
FYI, if you go to the picture on the flickr site, there's a share photo button that looks like an arrow pointing to the right. Click that button, and it will open a window with three options listed at the top: Share, Embed, or BB code. Click BB Code, and you'll then be shown some selectable text in a box, along with a drop down menu where you can select size. I usually select one of the "medium" sizes. Once the size is selected, you can click the text in the box, which will then highlight. Right click the highlighted text and select "copy" or click "Ctrl+C" on your keyboard.

Then come to the "reply to thread" window in the thread that you want to post the picture, and either right click and "paste" the text, or click "Ctrl+V" on your keyboard. It will paste the appropriate code and you'll be able to submit like any other comment.
 
I think those torches you show are too low BTU.


There is a Hammer-in at teh Farm Culture Museum in Staunton on November 2, 2019. There will be lots of balcksmiths, bladsesmiths, and demos. There is usually tailgating with all sorts of old equipment, anvils, tools, etc for really good prices. It will be well worth you going if possible. I won't be able to make it due to being at the Virginia Invitational Bourbon Tasting at The Cavalier in VA Beach.
 
Also, while those bricks take high temps (up to 2700F or so I believe? They look like the standard Rutland brand replacement fire bricks you can buy at most big box stores), they really don’t insulate/hold heat very well. You actually want a little bit lower rated refractory brick, which are usually lighter and softer. Something like a k23 brick would be a little better. You can also coat the inside with something like ITC-100 which will increase your efficiency a bit.
 
Drew Riley said:
48886459968_082e1a264b_z.jpg
Click to expand...

Hey drew, that construction looks similar to the 2 HT ovens i have. I love that construction, personally. I know forges are normally round so you get the flame swirl and all that. I am curious how that rectangle shape works for you?
 
Randy3000 said:
Hey drew, that construction looks similar to the 2 HT ovens i have. I love that construction, personally. I know forges are normally round so you get the flame swirl and all that. I am curious how that rectangle shape works for you?
Click to expand...

I was just posting the picture that OP took/linked to. I made my forge from a portable air tank, so it's round. I still need to get some better coating for the inside though, as it doesn't reflect heat quite like I want it to.
 
Drew Riley said:
I was just posting the picture that OP took/linked to. I made my forge from a portable air tank, so it's round. I still need to get some better coating for the inside though, as it doesn't reflect heat quite like I want it to.
Click to expand...
If I wasn't drunk last night I probably would have deduced that it wasn't yours haha
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
I think those torches you show are too low BTU.


There is a Hammer-in at teh Farm Culture Museum in Staunton on November 2, 2019. There will be lots of balcksmiths, bladsesmiths, and demos. There is usually tailgating with all sorts of old equipment, anvils, tools, etc for really good prices. It will be well worth you going if possible. I won't be able to make it due to being at the Virginia Invitational Bourbon Tasting at The Cavalier in VA Beach.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the heads up.

That sounds perfect.
And I pass the FCM at least 10 times a day.
 
Drew Riley said:
FYI, if you go to the picture on the flickr site, there's a share photo button that looks like an arrow pointing to the right. Click that button, and it will open a window with three options listed at the top: Share, Embed, or BB code. Click BB Code, and you'll then be shown some selectable text in a box, along with a drop down menu where you can select size. I usually select one of the "medium" sizes. Once the size is selected, you can click the text in the box, which will then highlight. Right click the highlighted text and select "copy" or click "Ctrl+C" on your keyboard.

Then come to the "reply to thread" window in the thread that you want to post the picture, and either right click and "paste" the text, or click "Ctrl+V" on your keyboard. It will paste the appropriate code and you'll be able to submit like any other comment.
Click to expand...

Thanks Drew.

I’ll give it a shot when I get a minute.

I really appreciate it.

(This site seems really hard to navigate on mobile
I’m going to see if it’s better on my MacBook. )
 
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