New to collecting... Hell of a forum you have here! *updated*

Kind of a fun one today!

I still have a gigantic "one year later" post coming soon, but I'm waiting to get a few knives back from being worked on before I do so. I'm also still waiting on my (hopefully) last shoulder surgery. The insurance company didn't like that the surgeon and my occupational health doctor both recommended surgery so they're sending me to get a THIRD opinion. L&I is so fun.

On the plus side... I've been keeping myself busy.

The G10 Delica scales I had made turned out a bit lighter than I would have liked. I was hoping for something a bit closer to the G10 on the Benchmade 555-1. Rit dye to the rescue (maybe)! I'm going to give this a go a bit later today, we'll see how it goes. I'll be sure to post my results for better or worse, lol.

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I really liked how the handle on my Opinel 7 turned out, so I've decided to give my Morakniv Classic 611 the same treatment. The swell on the handle is just a bit too big for my hand so I'm going to tone that down. I'll probably bring it more in line with the size of the plastic handled Mora's as they fit my hand really well. Strangely enough, this knife is a favorite of mine and I'm really excited to have a more custom fit. I'm not excited for the two dozen+ coats of tung oil I'll be applying...

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Next is just a little something I forgot to post about last month. A while back my wife mentioned that she didn't like the nylon sheath that came with the Buck 119 that we purchased at the Buck store in Idaho... Came home a few days later and noticed this was sitting on the bar waiting for me. The burgundy color goes really well with the cocobolo. :D

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Next we have the Massdrop exclusive Spyderco Delica with Super Gold 2 steel! I've been waiting for a Delica to come out in a really fun steel so I can add one to my permanent "collection". I'm pretty sure I've found it. This thing is a beaut! The grind lines are really well done and it is SHARP! I have a feeling this is going to become a highly sought after Delica in the next few years. I'm currently looking for some bronze/goldish hardware that will match the backlock, but I'm not having a lot of luck. You would think with heated steel, anodized titanium, TiNi, powder coating, and cerakote all being options, that someone would offer something... Then I'll just have to decide if I want to go with gold hardware and wood scales or carbon fiber Boomer Lil'Para scales.

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Now the exciting (to me at least) stuff!

It's time. I'm sending the Factor Iconic Titanium Compact in to me professionally anodized. I'm thinking a nice vibrant blue. But before that happens the gaudy "F" needs to go. I have some Whink's rust remover and Brillo pads on hand. I also ordered and extra fine medium which will be here in a day or two. I'm going to try that first and then go from there. Wish me luck!

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Next we have a little Kershaw Blur project I'm working on (thanks @BrokenLinx and @catmath 1911). The Tanto blade and black Trac-Tec inserts will be going into the brown handle and given to a friend. The Elmax (heck yes!) blade will be paired with the black handle, and then I have something really special in the works for the inserts. Shout out to @incaorchid for making that happen! More to come on that later.

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And last, but most certainly not least... I have something REALLY special going on with Landi MPS! Thank you to Brian Ehst (@Brian77) of Haw Creek Blades for working with me on this. I don't want to post too much until it's finished, but here's a little taste (yes I have more pictures, yes it's is freaking beautiful).

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Well, I think that's all for today. Have a happy Friday BladeForums!
That will be a sweet blur when your finished with it. I swapped a s30v blade into a navy blue handle to make the one wanted.

In fact, I think a got that blade from you ;)
So thanks for this.
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:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
That will be a sweet blur when your finished with it. I swapped a s30v blade into a navy blue handle to make the one wanted.

In fact, I think a got that blade from you ;)
So thanks for this.
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That looks great! I'm glad to see you're putting that Blur to good use. :D

The Blur is just slightly too big for me to EDC, but it's just too darn iconic not to have one in my collection.
 
Unless it's against some rule that I missed, I think I'm going to keep this thread going. I think it will be interesting to look back at where I started and see how far I have come after a few years.

Man, you've really embraced the sickness :D

Having a "log" over your collection is a fun idea, and something i wish that I had done when I started. Still have all my knives, except those who are lost or broken, but no idea about the order I got them.
 
Man, you've really embraced the sickness :D

Having a "log" over your collection is a fun idea, and something i wish that I had done when I started. Still have all my knives, except those who are lost or broken, but no idea about the order I got them.

Haha yea, I suppose you could say that.

Really though... adding everything up, I only have three or four thousand dollars invested in my collection and sharpening equipment, just a drop in the bucket compared to some. And If I were to sell everything, I could recoup the vast majority of what I've spent. That's one of the really cool things about this hobby in my opinion! I mean heck, I have a little over fifty knives in my possession right now, but I've owned over 100 at this point. The money I've lost on the fifty knives I sold has been very minimal, probably under $500. For all the joy I got out of owning those knives and discovering what I really value in a knife, I consider that more than a fair "rental fee". A bargain even.

Compared to some other hobbies, the level that I am at is actually very reasonable. My last bike cost around $1000 and I easily have another $600 - $800 invested in it, not counting my gear. My bike/setup is CHEAP compared to what a lot of people moderately into biking are rocking. Same thing goes with computers, which is my other main hobby. I spent $1,300 on the GPU in my main PC, and that's just one single component (albeit the most expensive one). In three years, it'll probably be worth $400 - $500. In five years, $200 - $300 and basically worthless after that.

low - mid-range knife collectors have it good!

I'm really enjoying keeping this log going! Even if I'm just talking to myself some of the time, it's really cool to look back and see where this all started and where my head was at during different periods. In the short time I've been here, my tastes have already changed so much and I've learned a ton. I know I've only scratched the surface though, and I'm really excited to see what's next.


On a another note...

I finished Rit dyeing the G10 scales on my Delica! Tons of fun! I'm going to take some pics real quick and then I'll post them either tonight or tomorrow.
 
Alright, so my Rit dye results.

First here's the scales before I started. A very light gray.

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And here are the scales after dyeing.

As you can see from the photos, there are a couple spots where the dye ended up a bit darker than the rest. It's not nearly as noticeable in person though, the camera tends to really show the flaws in color consistency. I used Acetone, 99% rubbing alcohol, and dawn dish soap to clean and prepare the surface, so I think the inconsistent coloring has more to do with surface inconsistencies from sanding the G10 and/or pocket wear, rather than a problem with the dyeing process. Overall, I am very happy with the results and would do it again at the drop of a hat. The knife looks MUCH closer to what I originally had in mind. If anyone is nervous about dyeing their first knife scales... Don't be. Also, this was on smooth G10. I would expect a textured G10 like what is normally found on Spydercos to take even better.

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And a couple shots next to my Benchmade 555-1 (don't mind the pocket lint, lol).

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I hate Brillo pads.

I've been working and working and working on the Factor Iconic scales. At this point, I have the majority of the "F" off, but it can still be faintly seen. :(

I'm trying to decide if I should grab an extra fine, sponge sanding block and go at it, or just dip the darn thing in some hydroflouric acid (Whink's rust remover)... Or maybe just send it in as is and call it good enough.

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Alright, so my Rit dye results.

First here's the scales before I started. A very light gray.

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And here are the scales after dyeing.

As you can see from the photos, there are a couple spots where the dye ended up a bit darker than the rest. It's not nearly as noticeable in person though, the camera tends to really show the flaws in color consistency. I used Acetone, 99% rubbing alcohol, and dawn dish soap to clean and prepare the surface, so I think the inconsistent coloring has more to do with surface inconsistencies from sanding the G10 and/or pocket wear, rather than a problem with the dyeing process. Overall, I am very happy with the results and would do it again at the drop of a hat. The knife looks MUCH closer to what I originally had in mind. If anyone is nervous about dyeing their first knife scales... Don't be. Also, this was on smooth G10. I would expect a textured G10 like what is normally found on Spydercos to take even better.

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And a couple shots next to my Benchmade 555-1 (don't mind the pocket lint, lol).

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I'm getting a wharnie delica in this week. I found some orange g10 scales for it at a great price and am going to rit dye the scales grey or black as well!
 
I'm getting a wharnie delica in this week. I found some orange g10 scales for it at a great price and am going to rit dye the scales grey or black as well!

Nice. That should turn out great, you should post your results!

I noticed all the parts on mine that took a darker color are spots that are sanded slightly smoother/shinier than the other parts, so you might want to tone those down if you have any on yours. The G10/epoxy also took color a lot faster than I was expecting.

Fun little project. :)
 
You know what? I hate sandpaper too.

I finally got the blasted "F" off of the scales from the Factor Iconic Titanium. It took hours. I ended up busting out the 1500 and 2000 grit sandpaper and then finished it off with a Brillo pad loaded with Bark River black compound. Because the scales are milled and the amount of material I had to take off where the F was, I'm sure the finish is going to be a bit uneven in some spots. Not to mention I'm sure I didn't work the clip side scale as much as the show side... And I probably didn't do the best getting into those contours at the bottom of the lockbar... But I'm DONE. Just can't do it anymore, lol. With any luck, the acid etch the scales get before they are anodized will help even them up. We'll see how it goes!

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I also went to town on the handle from my Mora 611. I started with a 60 grit sponge and moved to 80, 120, and 220 paper. I took off a lot of material, but it fits my hand like a dream now. I really hate sandpaper. The leather dye didn't take as well as it did with the Opinel 7 handle, which surprised me, but that's ok. Maybe I closed the pores a bit too much with the 220 grit. No biggie. This knife doesn't need to be pretty. Now comes the 4230920 coats of Fornby's. :eek:

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And last, I picked up a Cold Steel Special Forces Shovel... Because you never know when you'll have to fend off an enemy when you're digging a poop hole! Ok, actually it was just really cheap and looked fun for car camping. Everyone needs a bladed shovel, right?

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Alright, that's all I have for you today. I'm sending those scales in to be anodized this weekend and I just received word from Haw Creek Blades that my Landi is finished, so I should have the big anniversary update done soonish. :)

Have a great weekend BladeForums!
 
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Good afternoon BladeForums!

Today the Landi MPS that Brian Ehst (@Brian77) of Haw Creek Blades was working on, came in the mail. It's exquisite! Consider my expectations greatly exceeded! The fit and finish is wonderful (it even fit perfectly in it's original Kydex sheath). It fits my hand stupendously well, like it was custom molded. Brian's communication was top notch, he was very speedy, and his pricing was incredible. I had no idea you could get a knife rehandled and steel work done of this quality at such a reasonable price. I'm really trying to be nitpicky and I can't think of a single thing to comment on. The entire process was perfection. If anyone needs some steel work done or a knife rehandled, I highly, highly recommend Brian and Haw Creek Blades. He also has some really great looking fillet knives coming out soon, take a look!

The weather is horrendous today so you'll have to make due with the photos I took indoors with bad lighting... Sorry about that. I'll be sure to post some better photos when the weather clears up. Hopefully you can still get an idea of how darn good this knife looks from the pics. I wish you guys could hold this thing... It feels wonderful.

This first shot is what the Landi MPS originally looked like. A great knife made by John Landi (@Landi) with a very usable size and blade shape, featuring 1095 steel heat treated by Peter's. Although I liked the look of the G10, I wasn't quite happy with how it felt in my hand. I think I'm more of a Micarta and wood person when it comes to fixed blades I guess. The rear also had a bit of a hotspot. For under $70 it's remarkable deal and one of the best purchases I've made on BladeForums.

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And here it is after Brian finished with it. I can't even begin to tell you how much better it looks in person. The real special part is how good it feels in my hand now though!

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And closeups of the handle (the specks of white are from the paper towel I used to wipe it down). The wood is Koa obviously, which is known to have voids... But Brian must have performed some magic because they are imperceptible to the touch unless you drag your fingernail across them. Notice the hotspot on the rear of the knife is also gone. The mosaic pins were added at no extra charge and really go well with the Koa in my opinion.

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Not only did Brian put a groove in the tang to help balance the knife... But he also tapered the tang. It looks great, but more importantly it feels so good! The knife started out quite heavy in the handle, but is now quite balanced with the center of gravity just a shade towards the handle. Just how I like it. :)

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And just a couple shots from different angles. Notice Brian cleaned up the blade (it had some surface rust) and also put a simple convex grind on it. :) Now I just gotta clean up the edge and it's good to go!

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Just waiting on the scales of my Factor Iconic to be anodized now and I'll be ready to do the anniversary post. :)

Well, that's all I've got for you today... Time to go put another coat of Fornby's on the Mora.
 
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The Koa is a fantastic mod for an all together great blade. I think the Landi that I had picked up was from this same batch. I ultimately sent mine own to someone in the pif thread but have to agree it's a great knife that could use a more palm filling grip!
 
Hello BladeForums! I hope you're having a great weekend!

I meant to post this yesterday, but I got a little sidetracked. Two new knives have come in over the past couple of days. :)

First up was the Schrade SCHF55 Blackbird designed by Mistwalker Mistwalker . This thing is an absolute beast! I am super happy with this purchase, and I've been completely caught off guard by how good this knife is. If you're already thinking about picking one of these up, or are in need of an affordable workhorse, I'd say do it. The ergonomics are fantastic and you can tell a lot of thought went into it. The handle fits my hand exactly like I want a knife to. It's great.

I already have a set of micarta scales on the way for this puppy (thanks Mistwalker Mistwalker ), and I can't wait to try it out with them. I know some people might think it's silly to spend as much on the scales as you do on the knife, but here's my thinking... I'm going to thrash on this knife. Seriously. I might as well make it as comfortable and safe as possible (the scales aren't slick, but I love how grippy micarta is). With how thick and tough the 1095 is, I should be able to repair most any damage to the blade. If the worst happens and I somehow break it, I will be able to purchase a new knife very cheaply and install the micarta scales from the broken knife. So while the knife might get replaced, the scale will be "buy it for life". I think I'll throw this in my "bugout" bag (not a traditional bugout bag, but more of a pre-packed bag for spur of the moment, weekend camping trips), along with a thinner bladed Mora (or maybe the Grimalkin) and see how it goes. :)

I gotta say, right off the bat, I was pleasantly surprised by the quality of the packaging. I know it's just a small detail, but I paid ~$30 for this knife. I was expecting a cheap, plastic clamshell or something similar, but instead it came in a nice cardboard box. I really appreciate little things like that.

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Same with the sheath. I was really expecting a chintzy piece of plastic (and that would have been just fine at this price), but no. This thing is great! It holds the knife very well, and it's easy to see just how versatile it is.

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And here's the knife! The knife really speaks for itself. You take one look at it, and you can tell it was built to be used (and boy will it be used). The coating is very well done and the grind is more than acceptable. The grind near the tip is at a slightly steeper angle on one side, but that's no big deal at all. I like to set my own edges anyways. I was very surprised to find that the knife can easily slice paper very cleanly direct from the box. Excellent! The handle is so comfortable, and I have no problem getting a full four finger grip on it. The knife feels equally good with both a hammer and Filipino grip, which I find hard to find (I have pretty small hands). I also really appreciate how far the screws are counter-sunk.

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I told you this thing is a beast, look at how thick that spine is!

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Next to come in was the Buck of the Month 55 with nickel/silver bolsters, black Micarta, and S30V steel. I really liked my standard Buck 55 and I had been waiting for a more premium or limited edition version to come out. This was a little spendy, but checked all the boxes. Only 149 of these were made, which made it a little more enticing.

As with the Schrade 55, I was pleasantly surprised right from the get go by the packaging. My last BotM came in a nice, but standard cardboard box. It was cool to see this come in a nice wooden box.

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I was also happy to see that Buck decided to send a leather pocket slip with the knife too. Little things like this really do add up to a wonderful customer experience. I guess I should also mention I chose standard shipping and received the knife about 36 hours after ordering it.

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And on to the knife!

The Micarta on one side could be a little bit better. I thought it was a bit of leftover polishing compound at first, but after cleaning it up, it seems there are just some scratches in the Micarta (you can feel them with your fingernail). Kind of a bummer, but really not a big deal as this is going to be carried. The tip of the knife also isn't quite as perfect as I'm used to from Buck, but I like to set my own edges, so again... No big deal. Other than that, the fit and finish of the knife is excellent. Other than the tip, the grind is great. There are no significant gaps in the spring, and the blade also meets up well with the spring. Overall, I'm pretty pleased with it and am happy I purchased it. :)

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The weather cleared up yesterday so I went out to take some photos, but ants took over my regular spot. Jerks.

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Fortunately, I'm lucky enough to have a beautiful protected Wetlands in my backyard... So enjoy these photos of the exact same knives at different angles!
*Disclaimer - I'm no photographer and I took these with my phone.

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That's all until next time! Have a good weekend and happy holidays BladeForums! <3
 
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Hello BladeForums! I hope you're having a great weekend!

First up was the Schrade SCHF55 Blackbird designed by Mistwalker Mistwalker . This thing is an absolute beast! I am super happy with this purchase, and I've been completely caught off guard by how good this knife is. If you're already thinking about picking one of these up, or are in need of an affordable workhorse, I'd say do it. The ergonomics are fantastic and you can tell a lot of thought went into it. The handle fits my hand exactly like I want a knife to. It's great.

Hi Fixall,
I'm glad you like the Blackbird, thank you for your kind words. This knife, the SCHF55 Blackbird and its bigger brother the SCHF42 Raven, were both originally slated to be produced by TOPS Knives back in 2014. The Blackbird was actually supposed to be the XL version of the Tibo, a knife design I had being made through TOPS Knives at the time. But coming from a family of a long line of military veterans from the deep south...south Alabama, the price point it was going to sell at defeated a lot of the reason I designed these knives in the first place, so I was hesitant to have it produced through TOPS and decided to think things further through, since the actual goal was to get a more well thought out, more functional, more ergonomic tools, that are very tough into hands of soldiers and first responders at a more affordable price. After more than a decade of working in R&D and product development for companies like TOPS Knives and RMJ Tactical, who make tools for the military, and seeing the levels of mark up that existed there first hand, after growing up in a family of veterans who all grew up in economic struggles, I just couldn't live with going that route with this project. I was told I would never be able to get a NSN number with it being an import, but the for me the goal was to help soldiers like the ones I grew up with not end up dealing with random bureaucrats. If these knives sold at $200+ that would have defeated the motivation behind the development of them. I had spent 7 years watching how my first design for Schrade had done, and had seen no more failures with it than I had seen with much more expensive domestic and foreign made tools, and a lot fewer failures than some of them. So I made the decision to have these two and the 42D made as Schrades. Posts like this one, and emails and messages I get on face book regarding these knives from people all around the world, make me feel really good about that decision. These knives are made in the same Taiwanese factories as much higher priced knives, and of the same quality, so I am glad to be able to get hard use tools into the hands of the people who really need them, at a price point at which they do not fear using them. I have been putting this one through paces for almost a year now. It's showing wear, but it and the sheath still perform as they did a year ago when I got it. Between all the cutting, gouging, digging, scraping, prying, and chiseling it has done the last several months, I have enough illustration photos now for a thread that will be a lot more in depth on the elements of this knife design and reasons behind them than the thread I wrote about it last August. Thank you for your support, I hope it serves you well!
Brian
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Haha! A similar thought crossed my mind before I put the knife on the grate... Luckily I have a magnet on a rope for just such occasions while fishing and whatnot. :)

Hi Fixall,
I'm glad you like the Blackbird, thank you for your kind words. This knife, the SCHF55 Blackbird and its bigger brother the SCHF42 Raven, were both originally slated to be produced by TOPS Knives back in 2014. The Blackbird was actually supposed to be the XL version of the Tibo, a knife design I had being made through TOPS Knives at the time. But coming from a family of a long line of military veterans from the deep south...south Alabama, the price point it was going to sell at defeated a lot of the reason I designed these knives in the first place, so I was hesitant to have it produced through TOPS and decided to think things further through, since the actual goal was to get a more well thought out, more functional, more ergonomic tools, that are very tough into hands of soldiers and first responders at a more affordable price. After more than a decade of working in R&D and product development for companies like TOPS Knives and RMJ Tactical, who make tools for the military, and seeing the levels of mark up that existed there first hand, after growing up in a family of veterans who all grew up in economic struggles, I just couldn't live with going that route with this project. I was told I would never be able to get a NSN number with it being an import, but the for me the goal was to help soldiers like the ones I grew up with not end up dealing with random bureaucrats. If these knives sold at $200+ that would have defeated the motivation behind the development of them. I had spent 7 years watching how my first design for Schrade had done, and had seen no more failures with it than I had seen with much more expensive domestic and foreign made tools, and a lot fewer failures than some of them. So I made the decision to have these two and the 42D made as Schrades. Posts like this one, and emails and messages I get on face book regarding these knives from people all around the world, make me feel really good about that decision. These knives are made in the same Taiwanese factories as much higher priced knives, and of the same quality, so I am glad to be able to get hard use tools into the hands of the people who really need them, at a price point at which they do not fear using them. I have been putting this one through paces for almost a year now. It's showing wear, but it and the sheath still perform as they did a year ago when I got it. Between all the cutting, gouging, digging, scraping, prying, and chiseling it has done the last several months, I have enough illustration photos now for a thread that will be a lot more in depth on the elements of this knife design and reasons behind them than the thread I wrote about it last August. Thank you for your support, I hope it serves you well!
Brian

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I am very glad you brought this design to Schrade. The vast majority of knives by Tops are designed and marketed for a demographic very different than me... So much so that I rarely look at any of their offerings whatsoever. Had this been offered from Tops, I fear it wouldn't have ended up on my radar... Which would be terrible! It funny that you mention the military roots of the SCHF55 because that's how I found out about it to begin with. My Dad is a retired Chief Master Sergeant (Air Force EOD), and is now a homicide/arson detective for a Sheriff department. I saw a beat up SCHF55 on his work bench and asked him about it. Apparently a random high school kid sent it to him in a gift package while he was overseas and he used it as a "wrecking bar". He even told me he used it to pry open a car trunk once in the field. Pretty cool. :) I kind of had to have one of my own at that point, lol.

Great job on the knife. I am really enjoying it so far. In fact... I may have an SCHF42D on the way too. I'm sure I'll end up with the SCHF42 one of these days too, lol.
 
Hello BladeForums, Sunday funday!

And a fun one it is. :D Two knives came in the mail over the past couple days.

The first is one I had sent out to be professionally anodized. It took so much work to get the "F" off of the Factor Iconic Titanium Compact... It was worth it! It turned out fantastic! I wish I could give the artist a shout out, but I don't believe they are a supporting member... I'm looking into that. The blue is so vibrant and consistent! As usual, my photos don't even begin to do the knife justice. It really turned out amazing. The action of the knife is just as wonderful as ever too. So in the end, I spent just under $100 total for a titanium handled, custom anodized knife with S35VN steel and the best/smoothest flipping action of any knife I've ever handled. It just blows my mind. It's a shame that the maker had to steal the design. The company really could have been something. Knowing what I know now, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't buy the knife again... But I'm definitely not unhappy that I own it. It's not the knife's fault after all, and at least I'm not rocking the branding anymore.

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Weirdly enough, my favorite part of the anodizing is the look it gets after it's been handled and has oils from your hands on it. It gets this really cool blue/gray look. I love it.

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Next to come in was something really cool! A hand forged utility/paring knife made by Daado Daado ! This beautiful knife features forged 52100 steel, 30+ year old Textolite, black G10 liners, carbon fiber pins, and excellent ergonomics! It's going to be a great addition to our kitchen. It also came with a nice leather sheath and the shipping from Croatia was super fast. It's razor sharp and is just oozing craftsmanship! I guess I don't really have anything else to say... I mean look at it. The knife speaks for itself, it's beautiful. If you're looking at a piece from Dalibor, you should definitely do it. You won't regret it.

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That's all for the pictures today. I've got a couple things coming in on Monday (as well as a few other surprises in the works) though. Namely a Spyderco Mule Team #27 in MicroMelt PD#1 (which is CRU-WEAR for all intents and purposes) with sheath and a Grimalkin designed by @FortyTwoBlades. Notice something those two knives have in common? Neither come equipped with handles. :)

I haven't yet been able to find someone to rehandle my wife's SOG Field Pup so I have been giving some thought to ordering some pre-cut slabs of 3/8" black linen Micarta and maybe some Bocote and trying my hand at making a handle for the SOG and some scales for the Grimalkin and Mule Team. Reshaping the Opinel seemed to go well and I have a decent amount of experience sanding as well as all the tools I think I would require. The worst that could happen is that they turn out looking like garbage and I send the knives in to a pro, right? Sounds fun like fun to me... And my (hopefully last) shoulder surgery was just approved so it looks like I'm going to have some time on my hands.

Maybe some of you will have some good links to check out on handle/scale making (although I have several bookmarked now). I have a belt sander, but something about doing it all with hand tools sounds really appealing to me... I'm weird.

Well, I guess that's all for today. I hope you all have a wonderful end you your weekend!
 
Whoops, forgot to post this in the last post.

I also did the blade swap on the Blurs (and gave the tanto to a friend). I'm just waiting on the custom wood inserts for the handle, and it'll be finished. I thought about trying my hand at making those out of Micarta too... But that looks a bit difficult with some tight tolerances needed.

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