Newb question: Different axe grinds?

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Hello,

I apologize for the newb question, but I sometimes see axes with what I would describe as a sea shell / half moon grind on the cheeks to the bit. The best image I could find is #5 here (please disregard their descriptions):
http://www.tuatahiaxes.com/axegrinds.html

Is this due to the top and bottom of the head being thinner than the center of the cheeks of the head so when the primary grind is put on it results in that shape? Or is the thickness uniform and due to the grind the center of the cheeks actually ends up thinner than the top and bottom?

The follow up question then is, what does this grind offer as opposed to a more "standard" grind like that seen in #2 on that page where the grind to the apex of the bit is of uniform width along the edge?

Thank you for any help you can provide. And if you have any images that might help they would be greatly appreciated. I am very much so a visual learner.

Thank you
Collin
 
M3mphis said:
Different grinds excel at different things. The grinds look different based on the geometry of the axe (ie just how convex the cheeks are). Tuatahi gives some explanations of the different grinds here:

http://www.tuatahiaxes.com/racingaxes.html#main
Click to expand...

Thank you for the link. That helps a bit. If you don't mind a follow up...
1. Does the seashell battern leave the edges of the cheeks thicker? Does that serve a purpose?
2. In general, more convex cheeks are better for what types of wood? I'm guessing softwoods?
3. Does a chisel grind on an axe mean the same as on a knife? The final bevel is only ground on one side?

Thank you again for your help.
Collin
 
1. If you have a moment can you elaborate what types, or rather just name a few? Also, if anyone has a picture of the a real blade ground like that I would really appreciate it.
2. Thank you. Is convex better then for hardwoods, at least as a genaralization?
3. So if it's ground on both sides, what makes it a chisel grind? I'm sorry that I'm not getting it, but when I think of a chisel grind on a knife it only has one side ground.

And thank you in general for helping me out. I actually read that link yesterday from your Arvika grind, and I even wrote the author to ask a few questions.

Thank you again
Collin
 
Cashmore said:
1. If you have a moment can you elaborate what types, or rather just name a few? Also, if anyone has a picture of the a real blade ground like that I would really appreciate it.
Click to expand...

The half moon shape is a result of putting a bevel on an axe with a high centerline. That means that the bit is thicker in the center than at the to and heel. Also referred to as "convex cheeks." Look something like this:

P1070681.JPG


When you put your edge bevel on an axe with a high centerline, you naturally will need to remove material further up the bit in the middle since it is thicker. If you remove too much metal from the toe and heel, they will be very easy to damage. If you end up with the crescent shape on flat cheeks, then you probably ground it pretty weird. Here's a picture that demonstrates it marginally well:

P1070619.JPG


Cashmore said:
2. Thank you. Is convex better then for hardwoods, at least as a genaralization?
Click to expand...

Most chopping axes or general use axes have a convex bit (or at least they should). Flat bevels are mostly for specialty axes (hewing axes, carving hatchets, etc). There is always a trade of in the thickness - the thicker it is the tougher it is. The thinner it is the more penetration possible. Regardless of wood types, this trade off holds true and is a judgement call.

Cashmore said:
3. So if it's ground on both sides, what makes it a chisel grind? I'm sorry that I'm not getting it, but when I think of a chisel grind on a knife it only has one side ground.
Click to expand...

On a racing axe, "chisel grind" means that the final bevel is a flat grind with an even width from toe to heel (no crescent shape like we talked about above). It is a dual bevel, though.
 
^^ that's a beautiful kelly perfect -- what weight? looks bigger than my 4lb'er.

Also, +1 on the blue-and-white-crew sharpening page -- thats what I got started with.
 
M3mphis said:
The half moon shape is a result of putting a bevel on an axe with a high centerline. That means that the bit is thicker in the center than at the to and heel. Also referred to as "convex cheeks."
Click to expand...

Ok, this is where a lot of my misunderstanding was coming in I think. I thought convex meant it curved our from poll to bit, however convex here refers to it curving out from toe to heel. Does concave / hollow cheeks mean the same or does the follow go from poll to bit when they mention that?

M3mphis said:
When you put your edge bevel on an axe with a high centerline, you naturally will need to remove material further up the bit in the middle since it is thicker. If you remove too much metal from the toe and heel, they will be very easy to damage. If you end up with the crescent shape on flat cheeks, then you probably ground it pretty weird.
Click to expand...

Again that makes perfect sense now. Two follow up question though...is the peak / fattest part of the crescent correspond to the center line? Is this why on moosecreektrail's arvika grind he drew the triangle towards the bit, to determine where the crescent should peak so to speak?

M3mphis said:
Most chopping axes or general use axes have a convex bit (or at least they should). Flat bevels are mostly for specialty axes (hewing axes, carving hatchets, etc). There is always a trade of in the thickness - the thicker it is the tougher it is. The thinner it is the more penetration possible. Regardless of wood types, this trade off holds true and is a judgement call.

On a racing axe, "chisel grind" means that the final bevel is a flat grind with an even width from toe to heel (no crescent shape like we talked about above). It is a dual bevel, though.
Click to expand...

If the chisel grind is flat and even width from toe to heel does that man the cheeks are also flat or does the chisel grind end up being thicker in the center or towards the toe and heel? Last question for now...does rolled chisel mean essentially an even width convexed final bevel?

Again, I can't thank you enough for helping me with all this. It's really enlightening.
 
Axepictures005_zps93c70693.jpg

Axepictures003_zpsf305c235.jpg

Axepictures004_zps61f45c43.jpg

Notice edges of chisel, slightly less on edges,
For trail Work the Banana Grind Is a little thin, as we cut thru knots, dead wood, Green wood,
On some axes like Tuatahi are ground flat with a slight high center line, So the chisel grind is more uniform along it line from toe to heal.
I am no expert in sharpening. Learning every Day.
My goal as soon as it thaws, Take pictures of different grinds(and head styles) in a variety
of wood, And possibly prove why the jersey isn’t my favorite?
Great ?
Search Is your friend

Sorry about giving props to smoky:)
 
Great pics, Moose! Nice job on that head, it looks great! I can't wait to see your action shots!!!

moosecreektrails said:
possibly prove why the jersey isn’t my favorite?
Click to expand...

I'm with you there. I'm no longer a jersey fan. Most of them are too flat to keep pace with a good Connecticut. I've never used one quite like your Arvika, but I'd sure like to try one!

I've thought about trying a reprofile on this big Jersey, the one on the left:
IMAG0166.jpg


It's a Kelly Works World's Finest, and I've been hesitant to grind on it. Seeing your pics is making me want to try it more!
 
catalytic said:
^^ that's a beautiful kelly perfect -- what weight? looks bigger than my 4lb'er.

Also, +1 on the blue-and-white-crew sharpening page -- thats what I got started with.
Click to expand...

I don't have that Perfect anymore. It was somewhere in the 3.5 to 4 pound range. BTW, those two pics are not the same axe. The top pic (profile shote) is a Legitimus Connecticut pattern.
 
M3mphis said:
I'm with you there. I'm no longer a jersey fan. Most of them are too flat to keep pace with a good Connecticut. I've never used one quite like your Arvika, but I'd sure like to try one!

I've thought about trying a reprofile on this big Jersey, the one on the left:
IMAG0166.jpg
Click to expand...

Do you mean the cheeks of the Jersey pattern tend to be flatter than those of the Connecticut? Are the Connecticut more convex or concave?

Since the Jersey on the left has a Banana grind doesn't that mean it has a high centerline?

Thank you again
Collin
 
Cashmore said:
Do you mean the cheeks of the Jersey pattern tend to be flatter than those of the Connecticut? Are the Connecticut more convex or concave?

Since the Jersey on the left has a Banana grind doesn't that mean it has a high centerline?

Thank you again
Collin
Click to expand...

I mean that the Connecticuts tend to have a higher centerline. Meaning that they are more convex from toe to heel. The middle of the bit thickens more than a Jersey.

That Jersey doesn't have a banana grind. The line your seeing is just where the bit is polished up.
 
Hi moosecreektrails, I am making some films here in New Zealand about some AXEMEN LEGENDS, and I would like to use that photo of the axehead with the writing on it. The films will be online for general viewing later this year and also on display in the Kauri Museum, Matakohe, Northland, New Zealand. The films are non profit. Would that be OK? Best, Kawowski
 
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