Newer Mexican Nicholson Black Diamond Files, what are they made from?

D

Dmott

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Nov 26, 2018
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Hello everybody, I thought I already had an account to this site but I guess Ive just been lurking all this time. Lots of info here on this site, thanks for that.

I've been searching for hours for an answer to this, but I'm never sure if what I'm finding is really the answer... Have the newer Nicholson files always called themselves black diamond? Everytime I see "black diamond" it is referring to the pre-Nicholson files or the USA Nicholson files.

I was at Home Depot and decided I would play around with some files and maybe end up with a decent knife for whittling or something. I figured that was the easiest route since I don't want to mess around with heat treating. I thought I would be buying regular Nicholson files and they would be 1095 or something similar, but that's when I noticed they are calling themselves "Black Diamond." One package said made in Brazil, and I just assumed they were making them all there now. I bought a 6" and 8" and now I see these are both made in Mexico. I think maybe the 10" or 12" was made in Brazil? But maybe it was the rasps I can't remember.

Anyway, the real question is if the Mexican Nicholsons have always been calling themselves Black Diamond? Are they closer to 1095 or closer to the 1.2-1.3% carbon steel the old Black Diamonds are supposedly made from?

Any help is appreciated.
 
I think it depends on what the use of the file is. I believe files for wood/pvc seem to be more case hardened. Files for metal are fully hardened. Best bet is talk with the company.
 
I’m under the impression that older, made in USA, Nicholson files can make decent knives.
The new ones though, not made in the USA, are case hardened and will not make a good knife.

Plus buying a new file to make a knife out of is kinda like buying a table to make chair out of.

Buy some known steel from a steel supplier and use the files on it.
 
A.McPherson said:
I’m under the impression that older, made in USA, Nicholson files can make decent knives.
The new ones though, not made in the USA, are case hardened and will not make a good knife.

Plus buying a new file to make a knife out of is kinda like buying a table to make chair out of.

Buy some known steel from a steel supplier and use the files on it.
Click to expand...
Yeah I completely understand that. The big thing is I do not want to mess around with heat treating, for now at least.

I found a store in town that sells a bunch of files, including USA Nicholson. I stocked up with 10 or so. I think I probably will go pick more up.

My real question was whether or not Mexican Nicholsons have always been labeled as Black Diamond. If it is a newer thing, I'm curious if the metal is something different. Now I'm questioning if they're case hardened or not.

I guess I can reach out to Nicholson for an answer.

FWIW, the Mexican that I made into a knife seems to be pretty standard 1095. I will try to whittle or something and see if it dulls instantly.
 
The present day Nicholson files are 1095. So are the Black Diamonds. They were a company that Nicholson bought a long time ago. They left the name for the sake of sales. At the time they were using a 1.30 carbon steel that was produced for them by Bethlehem. At one point they came up with new processing,but the 1.30 Carbon steel was cracking with the new process. It was decided to use the 1095 which works fine. The older files were 72/74 RockwellC. The new ones come in at 65RC. If you want to make a knife out of 1095, call me! The time you save alone is worth it! ....unless you have your heart set on making a file knife! Then by all means buy a Nicholson or Black Diamond. Be sure not to use a rasp though! They are made out of CASE HARDENED 1045.
 
Thanks for the detailed response!

I'm not really new to knives but I'm definitely new to knife making. Is buying heat treated metal something people do?
 
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Dmott said:
Thanks for the detailed response!

I'm not really new to knives but I'm definitely new to knife making. Is buying heat treated metal something people do?
Click to expand...

Not generally, unless you are buying a knife blank that you just handle and sharpen. You mentioned you don't want to heat treat, do you have a grinder of some kind that you intend to use? If your files are at 72-74hrc than shaping will be tough. If you can get the knife shaped as you want you will probably want to at least temper it in the oven a bit to make it less brittle. Better yet, do that first before grinding, then keep the blade cool while you are shaping.
 
Yeah, that's the method I'm doing. Just tempering and keeping the blade cool while shaping. Here's what's I've done so far. These will be for whittling.
YNuuL0J.jpg
 
Just throwing this out there in case you dont know - there are people that can heat treat a blade for you
 
Aldo Bruno said:
The present day Nicholson files are 1095. So are the Black Diamonds. They were a company that Nicholson bought a long time ago. They left the name for the sake of sales. At the time they were using a 1.30 carbon steel that was produced for them by Bethlehem. At one point they came up with new processing,but the 1.30 Carbon steel was cracking with the new process. It was decided to use the 1095 which works fine. The older files were 72/74 RockwellC. The new ones come in at 65RC. If you want to make a knife out of 1095, call me! The time you save alone is worth it! ....unless you have your heart set on making a file knife! Then by all means buy a Nicholson or Black Diamond. Be sure not to use a rasp though! They are made out of CASE HARDENED 1045.
Click to expand...

Great info, Aldo!

Are you by any chance aware of the year (or about thereof) when they started using 1095 instead of the 1.3% carbon steel?

Also, I used plenty of files over the years but never a rasp, but I'm just curious if they are all case-hardened 1045, as in all brands and all years including older rasps? I'm just curious as I don't plan on making any rasp knives any time soon, but I always enjoy learning anything I can about the types of steel files & rasps are made from.


D Dmott , I believe the "problem" with some of the newer Nicholson files made outside of the states is (or at least was, not sure anymore) mostly in how consistent the teeth in the files are/were, making for less than desirable results in the finish they left and just the overall performance compared to when they were still being made in the USA. As Aldo mentioned already, the steel is still fine for knives.

~Paul
My Youtube Channel
... (It's been a few years since my last upload)
 
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