Norton India Stone VS DMT Diamond Stones? Which is better for faster results?

MTHall720

MTHall720

Joined
Sep 21, 2010
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I have two fairly good size DMT stones - one coarse and one fine. I have used these several times on a variety of folders and some fixed blades.
No exotic steels being sharpened. Seems like even with light pressure, and no matter what blade I am sharpening, I keep having the DMT stones load up really fast. Just wondering, for those who have experience with both the classic style Norton India or other oil stones, which is better for fairly quick results -- Diamond or India stone?

Thanks.
 
Diamond by a considerable margin.!

IME, you can speed up the cutting action of diamond stones by keeping them very wet, and washing the swarf from the cutting surface often.
 
DMT's don't load up in a way that effects their cutting speed. Put a little water on them and the swarf will bunch up at either end and keep the stone clean.
 
Ben Dover said:
Diamond by a considerable margin.!

IME, you can speed up the cutting action of diamond stones by keeping them very wet, and washing the swarf from the cutting surface often.
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^That, in terms of raw cutting speed anyway. Your diamond hones loading up quickly, are proof of that. As mentioned, using them wet, or with a little dish soap & water, will help to keep the swarf suspended, so it won't clog up your hone as fast.

I'm not knocking the India or other stones. Sometimes, if just touching up an edge or doing anything other than aggressive re-profiling, the difference in speed won't necessarily be an advantage. On simpler steels especially, diamond can almost be too aggressive sometimes, resulting in more metal removal than is necessary. Match the stone to the task, to the steel, and also to your own technique & skills. You can find specific advantages in each of them, if you keep your options open.
 
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Thanks to everyone for the ideas. David, the steels I most often use are AUS6, AUS8, D2, 154CM, S30V, and 1095, along with a couple Cr steels.
 
MTHall720 said:
Thanks to everyone for the ideas. David, the steels I most often use are AUS6, AUS8, D2, 154CM, S30V, and 1095, along with a couple Cr steels.
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That's a pretty good mix, and sort of highlights what I was talking about. For me, diamond would be best with the D2 and S30V, because of their extremely hard carbides in the steel. Again, the difference would be more noticeable if you were doing some major metal removal on those. And I'd probably pick something other than diamond for the AUS6/8 blades, and the 1095. Diamond really chews 1095 up, if you're not careful. It's easy to miss the burr formation, as the diamond can make the burr and then erase it very quickly. IF I do decide to use diamond on those, I always prefer to avoid the coarse grits, from the start. Fine/EF/EEF is still aggressive enough for those, without running the risk of overdoing it.

The 154CM steel would respond pretty well with either abrasive, I think.
 
My diamond stones don't load up during normal sharpening. Unless, your using the finer grits. Nor do I notice them cutting any faster than SiC or AO India stones. They all load up during rebeveling. Yes, for some of those steels I wouldn't use diamond. DM
 
On diamonds, I like using water mixed with a pinch of baking soda. For some reason, it keeps diamonds from loading up better than water alone. It's alkaline like using a bit of liquid soap, but doesn't dry my hands too much. Other folks use ammonia-based window cleaner or WD-40.
 
MTHall720 said:
Thanks to everyone for the ideas. David, the steels I most often use are AUS6, AUS8, D2, 154CM, S30V, and 1095, along with a couple Cr steels.
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S30V will respond well to diamonds. But IME, those other steels you mention are better sharpened with stones or sandpaper. Diamonds really are a bit of overkill for steels with abrasion resistance that low.
 
Ben Dover said:
S30V will respond well to diamonds. But IME, those other steels you mention are better sharpened with stones or sandpaper. Diamonds really are a bit of overkill for steels with abrasion resistance that low.
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D2 is anything but low abrasion resistance. Not quite as bad as S30V, but still significant. It finishes & polishes very well with wet/dry sandpaper (silicon carbide), but I've found diamond to be a lot faster at the initial heavy metal removal stage. I used a fine (25 micron) DMT diamond hone to initially grind a new, more acute bevel on this Queen Country Cousin in D2 (Queen's blades are notorious for coming with thick edges from the factory), then convexed it on wet/dry sandpaper afterwards. Worked out great:
 
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thombrogan said:
On diamonds, I like using water mixed with a pinch of baking soda. For some reason, it keeps diamonds from loading up better than water alone. It's alkaline like using a bit of liquid soap, but doesn't dry my hands too much. Other folks use ammonia-based window cleaner or WD-40.
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I'm gonna have to try that. I use baking soda for several things (brushing teeth, and as an acid-neutralizing mouthwash in warm water), and I have noticed that it seems to break the surface tension of water a bit. I could see that being an advantage on the hones, as the water would have less of a tendency to bead up, and therefore more evenly coat the surface of the hone.
 
Baking soda in water will keep carbon steels from rusting and rust from forming on the plate from the removed metal.

As for cutting speed that will be based on steel and the quality of its heat treatment. Stone selection plays a role but you must use the proper tools for the job, don't expect a set of grand dads oil stones to work so well on S90V that has 9% vanadium with carbides that reach 80+ on the Rockwell scale. Beyond that its a per-steel basis and can become a complex subject just speaking for one steel.

Can you show pictures of the loading you describe?
 
Phil Wilson sharpens S110V with Norton Crystolon stones, so as long as Grandad's oilstones were from a hardware store, it shouldn't be a problem. Maybe not a sensual experience like with a creamy, muddy 5,000 grit Chosera (and, presumably, a 6,000 grit Arashiyama), but not a problem.

Edited to add:

OwE, lemme know how that works for you. Yuzuha gave me the idea years ago.
 
I do, but think it's more self-deception so we may continue to convince ourselves to buy more stones and bricks past the too many we already have than anything particularly objective.
 
thombrogan said:
]I do, but think it's more self-deception so we may continue to convince ourselves to buy more stones and bricks past the too many we already have than anything particularly objective.
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[/B]

And that, my friend, is a very astute observation. :p
Now, let's see. I know I need a set of J-Nats for my EP, but I can't seem to remember why. :eek::eek:
 
Crystolon is great if you don't want much refinement on you edge. If grandpa did, he probably used Arkansas stones, which are slightly slower. Just as glaciers are slightly slower than top fuel dragsters :D
 
I use DMTs most of the time, but reserve an ancient Black Arkansas bench stone for finishing my high carbon blades (52100, Carbon V, 1070), as it seems to impart a very toothy micro-edge. I clean my DMT hones with BreakFree -- spray lightly, leave overnight, then wipe with a soft cloth or tissue. It seems to lift out any embedded particles and restores the cutting qualities of the hones.
 
knifenut1013 said:
Baking soda in water will keep carbon steels from rusting and rust from forming on the plate from the removed metal.

As for cutting speed that will be based on steel and the quality of its heat treatment. Stone selection plays a role but you must use the proper tools for the job, don't expect a set of grand dads oil stones to work so well on S90V that has 9% vanadium with carbides that reach 80+ on the Rockwell scale. Beyond that its a per-steel basis and can become a complex subject just speaking for one steel.

Can you show pictures of the loading you describe?
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I was hoping to get some pics but had a hard time trying to get enough detail. Basically what I am seeing are patches of dark gray on the stones, and am having some difficulty even after using comet trying to clean them off. However, until now I have used them dry, so will now try wet.
 
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