Not a great debut for the new Council Wood-Craft Pack Axe

Twindog

Gold Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2004
Messages
3,937
After seeing some good reviews, I bought the new Council Tools Wood-Craft Pack Axe, which came with a 23-inch haft and a pronounced and beautiful grind. It is a premium axe that Council says is designed for “extreme work and play in the woods.” Perfect. I live, work and play in the woods.


UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_23d_zpstebdgchg.jpg



Mine came with a sharp, 40-degree inclusive grind to the bit. The head is made from 5160 steel hardened at both ends. Normally, that steel alloy is pretty tough stuff.


To be honest, I wasn’t too impressed with the axe when I cut it out of the box. First, the bit, which is very sharp, had cut through the leather mask, as well as the vinyl protective cover. I’m lucky it didn’t cut its way right out of the box during transit. Council really needs a middle rivet, not just a welt, to protect the threads, but otherwise the mask is gorgeous. It's made of soft, very high quality leather and hardware.


UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_23e_zpst0isgris.jpg



I was also worried about the grain runout on the haft, even though the grain orientation at both the butt and head ends of the haft is vertical.


UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_23b_zpsivxlkoms.jpg



The phantom bevel had a wicked burr on the top of the phantom grind. This burr doesn’t have any effect on the performance of the axe, but it seems an oversight on a premium axe.


This morning, I took my aging malamute up river. He’s having trouble making the daily 3-mile walk to the ocean, so I’m cutting a nice easy trail to walk him through the woods. But first, I have to clear out the salmonberry, elderberry, downed trees, etc., from the new path. It’s mostly machete work, but the downed trees and thicker branches were perfect for the new Wood-Craft axe, especially because the new trail is too far to carry my chainsaw. The morning broke under a soft, overcast sky. The rain forest, as usual, smelled sweet and wet, and I was excited to take the new axe out for its first drive and see how she's run.


Not too well.


The 23-inch handle (24 inches in the ads, but it gets cut down during hanging) is a little short. Another two inches would be much better. It didn’t cut all that well, compared to my usual, heavier axes, but a light, compact axe is easier to carry.


The real problem was the edge. It both chipped and rolled pretty bad.


UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_23a_zps1cwoka7s.jpg



If you look closely, you might be able to see the burr on the top of the head in the photo below. It’s big.


UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_238_zpsxo59naj5.jpg



I’m not sure where to go with this axe from here. Maybe I can put on a new 26-inch haft and grind the bit down a bit. Maybe with hand files, I can get down to good metal in short order. A copper rivet through the mask will fix that problem in a hurry.


Still, while there are a lot of nice details and some good thought put into the design, out of the box it didn’t perform all that well. It would see nothing but the taillights of my vintage or Gransfors Bruks axes.

 
Sounds like a paradise where you live. I often do walks like that but without an ocean for a view.

The combination of chips and rolls makes me question the type of steel used. 5160 should heat treat even enough to do one or the other with a bad heat treat. To do both makes me suspect some non-homogenized recycled steel. Another possibility is that it really is 5160 but was tempered too hard and then overheated in places during sharpening. In either case I'd expect better from a top price axe and would be sending that tool back to Council.

I've never liked axes in the 20" to 24" range. It's that no man's land where it's not quite an axe and not quite a hatchet. Just long enough to stick it in your shin.
 
Keep us informed on what you do with it and how Council tool respond if you contact them.
 
Keep us informed on what you do with it and how Council tool respond if you contact them.

I probably won't contact Council. I'm sure it's a good company and would probably take it back, but I don't really have any use for an axe in this category. As Square Peg said, the handle length is not all that useful. I found that I had to bend over while chopping to keep my swings safe, but that posture put a lot of pressure on my lower back.

What made me most interested in it was the use of 5160 steel with a hardened bit and poll -- along with the company's intention to produce a truly high-performance, USA-made axe. Now that I've see how this steel performs -- and how the design performs -- I've lost interest.
 
That's odd. To have an axe both roll and chip at the same time.

I have 7 malamutes. Oldest one is 14 years, he used to be as tough as they come and probably the best dog I will ever have (it's usually the first one, when you are pretty much ignorant on how to handle a dominant dog and until you learn you get every oportunity in the book to screw things up :) ). He's blind now and gets like a fistful of pills and supplements to make sure his old bones are not suffering, so he maintains decent mobility but wouldn't dream to take him anywhere out of the yard. He's just as stubborn as he used to be, refusing to roll over and die. He's also a cancer survivor. I will sorely miss this old boy one day, hopefully not too soon...
 
Sounds like a paradise where you live. I often do walks like that but without an ocean for a view.

The combination of chips and rolls makes me question the type of steel used. 5160 should heat treat even enough to do one or the other with a bad heat treat. To do both makes me suspect some non-homogenized recycled steel. Another possibility is that it really is 5160 but was tempered too hard and then overheated in places during sharpening. In either case I'd expect better from a top price axe and would be sending that tool back to Council.

I've never liked axes in the 20" to 24" range. It's that no man's land where it's not quite an axe and not quite a hatchet. Just long enough to stick it in your shin.

Well, much if not most steel is recycled this day. (Pretty much all steel has very very small traces of other elements than what appears in the datasheet, w/ no ill consequences.) And you are right, 5160 is deep hardening, so this shouldn't have happened. Unless it wasn't tempered enough after hardening and during sharpening only some parts of the edge overheated?? Bummer.
 
That's odd. To have an axe both roll and chip at the same time.

I have 7 malamutes. Oldest one is 14 years, he used to be as tough as they come and probably the best dog I will ever have (it's usually the first one, when you are pretty much ignorant on how to handle a dominant dog and until you learn you get every oportunity in the book to screw things up :) ). He's blind now and gets like a fistful of pills and supplements to make sure his old bones are not suffering, so he maintains decent mobility but wouldn't dream to take him anywhere out of the yard. He's just as stubborn as he used to be, refusing to roll over and die. He's also a cancer survivor. I will sorely miss this old boy one day, hopefully not too soon...

Malamutes are awesome. Although they can be a ton of trouble, it's impossible not to love them. Deus isn't likely to make it to 14, but he's hanging in there at almost 10 years old. In his younger day, he'd chase and catch up to bears. Never knew what happened when he'd catch up them. He'd never bark. Once, he treed a cougar right in front of me. I could almost pull the cougar's tail like a dinner bell. Scared the heck out me.

Here's Deus at age 2 with his older sister, Holly.

DSC01266_zpslooimxtt.jpg
 
I probably won't contact Council. I'm sure it's a good company and would probably take it back, but I don't really have any use for an axe in this category. As Square Peg said, the handle length is not all that useful. I found that I had to bend over while chopping to keep my swings safe, but that posture put a lot of pressure on my lower back.

What made me most interested in it was the use of 5160 steel with a hardened bit and poll -- along with the company's intention to produce a truly high-performance, USA-made axe. Now that I've see how this steel performs -- and how the design performs -- I've lost interest.

Twin,

Council had upgraded their heat-treat/quenching system... and what you have experienced, will no doubt be something that Council will want to investigate so that if there is an issue with the new system, they can rectify it immediately...

I'd encourage you to reach out to them and share your experience.. and don't sign off on the 5160 just yet... All the Velvicut axes and the new Wood-Craft axes are made with that steel, and when done well, it's a great tool steel...

I can get you in direct contact with someone at Council, just let me know...

Peace, Rooster
 
Last edited:
I would definitely contact them so they're aware of the problem.
When I first saw these I really hated the thought of them, but I actually don't mind the way their head shape looks now ( traditional style phantom bevels would look better though )
Since you don't like the length you could see if they might put the replacement on a longer handle for you , after all you did get a defective head and a more catastrophic problem could've resulted in injury.
 
Even if you don't like it, I'd at least let Council know about it for their own sake. That axe experienced a failure in both materials and packaging and they'll want to correct it from their end to make sure that others don't share the same experience.
 
There was a little pop-up cardboard tab in the carton that was supposed to hold the haft in place. But on my package, the tab had been flattened and the axe could move around inside the otherwise empty box. The bit can slide between the two rivets in the leather mask, exposing the threads to the edge. I suppose a drop or rough handling would have caused the edge to bite through the threads and the mask. The edge was very sharp. This is probably an uncommon occurrence.

When I looked at the bit this morning through a 10X loupe, I could see that the chips are actually rolls and/or dents, some with tearing. Many look like chips, but they are actually dents, some with sharp edges caused by tears in the metal (which is chip-like, I suppose because it reflects a lack of strength in the edge). So the edge did reflect both a lack of strength and toughness. Maybe someone knows more about this than me, because I'm at the limits of my knowledge.

I compared the forward head profile of the Wood-Craft axe to a Gransfors Bruks Small Forest Axe, which I use often to turn small rounds into large kindling.

UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_241_zps8tqvnpgx.jpg


I think you can see some of the rolling on the Wood-Craft axe at the toe.

The profile of the GB is thinner by a fair margin, which is why I noticed that the Wood-Craft axe didn’t cut as well, even though the two axes are similar and I believe the Small Forest Axe is what the Wood-Craft Pack Axe is designed to compete with.

At the toe, the base of the edge is 0.1995 inches on the Council axe and 0.1655 on the SFA.

At the middle of the bit, the Council axe is 0.2570 inches and the SFA is 0.1850 inches at the corresponding location.

In the middle of the bit, as far back as my micrometer can reach, the Council axe is 0.3530 inches and the SFA at that same spot is 0.2200 inches.

My plan moving forward is to reprofile the head of the Wood-Craft axe. I’m going to thin out the bit flare so the bit has better penetration into the wood. Then I’m going to put on a 50-degree microbevel on the edge. If that doesn’t hold, I’ll try a 60-degree microbevel.

Council advertises that it tested this axe extensively, using highly skilled and experienced woodsmen. I doubt there is anything that I can tell them. And I’m just here to talk about axes, not to get anything from a corporation.

I was hitting a lot of knots during trail clearing, but they didn’t affect my machete edge, which is fairly soft. And the machete was almost as effective as the Wood-Craft axe on the downed branches.
 
Twindog,

It's your axe and you should do what you want with it... But I will tell you that what you have is a rare occurrence, that should be brought to Council's attention... Letting them know what happened in detail will help it from happening in the future.... they are a respectable company that is supportive of the Axe Community... not sure why you think that by going back to them with this isolated incident would result in "getting anything from a corporation"...

I'd like to share with the group some facts and truths about the Pack Axe from Council....

It was never designed or intended to compete with any one axe or brand on the market, but allow customers an American Made option for a quality bushcraft type axe... people automatically compare it to the GB SFA, but the Pack Axe is significantly heavier and can be used for larger jobs...

The 25 deg. flat-grind is a good working geometry... many framing chisels are set with this same overall bevel.... that's one of the reasons that I refer to it as a "chisel on a stick"... many customers have seen the usefulness of type of edge, and have shared with others online that they replaced their existing forest axe with the pack axe...some of those being a SFA...

It is unfortunate that the mask was damaged during shipping... and I'm sure that Council would make changes needed if Dealers and Customers would alert them of issues surrounding the packaging...

Working the edge back past the damaged edge should result on flawless performance without changing any of the geometry.... of course changing the bevel would be your decision instead of taking the option to notify Council and return the axe so that it can me examined... Many axe makers have this policy so that quality can be maintained and future failures can be alleviated...

Again, I'd say that this is an isolated incident but to be sure, Council would undoubtedly want to know about it...


Peace, Rooster
 
The Council axe has a light, rainbow-like discoloring that none of my other axes show. I don't know if that means anything.

But when I take a screwdriver to the edge, it leaves a noticeable scratch. When I do the same thing to the GB axe, it doesn't leave a scratch.

I don't know what the hardness of these bits are, but it's clear that the bit on the Council axe is softer. That alone might explain the edge issues.
 
The Council axe has a light, rainbow-like discoloring that none of my other axes show. I don't know if that means anything.

But when I take a screwdriver to the edge, it leaves a noticeable scratch. When I do the same thing to the GB axe, it doesn't leave a scratch.

I don't know what the hardness of these bits are, but it's clear that the bit on the Council axe is softer. That alone might explain the edge issues.

Sounds like temper colors. It got too hot during grinding and/or sharpening.

5160 should/could be hard as a rock and not chip badly, much less roll/tear; that grind is not aggressive at all in my opinion. I have a 1045 axe with the edge on the extra fine side and it will roll if used roughly, but it's brother with an edge about like your woodcraft is fine.
 
Malamutes are awesome. Although they can be a ton of trouble, it's impossible not to love them. Deus isn't likely to make it to 14, but he's hanging in there at almost 10 years old. In his younger day, he'd chase and catch up to bears. Never knew what happened when he'd catch up them. He'd never bark. Once, he treed a cougar right in front of me. I could almost pull the cougar's tail like a dinner bell. Scared the heck out me.

Here's Deus at age 2 with his older sister, Holly.

DSC01266_zpslooimxtt.jpg

Nice dogs! And 100% agree...they are that type PIA that you'd still hate getting away from :).

That sounds like a heck of a dog :).

I'll tell a few stories of my own involving Carlos, but tomorrow.
 
Lovely dogs you have there, love them huskies and malamute! such headstrong and loyal little fellows!

Twin, i had a somewhat similar occurrence happen to me with my GB small forest axe whilst hitting knots, but it was chipping, not Rolling. My reseller replaced it no question asked, you do you, but i'd exchange it and give it one more go!
 
. . .
To be honest, I wasn’t too impressed with the axe when I cut it out of the box. First, the bit, which is very sharp, had cut through the leather mask, as well as the vinyl protective cover. . .
UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_23e_zpst0isgris.jpg

. . .
". . . includes a high quality welted leather Mask to protect your Pack Axe from the elements and you from your extremely sharp Pack Axe."
http://counciltool.com/shop/wood-craft/2-wood-craft-pack-axe-24-curved-handle-mask/

Fortunately that sheath failed in shipping. It could have failed at a time not so fortunate for your flesh.

I'd return it just for that.


Bob
 
[QUOTE". . . includes a high quality welted leather Mask to protect your Pack Axe from the elements and you from your extremely sharp Pack Axe."
http://counciltool.com/shop/wood-craft/2-wood-craft-pack-axe-24-curved-handle-mask/

Fortunately that sheath failed in shipping. It could have failed at a time not so fortunate for your flesh.

I'd return it just for that.


Bob[/QUOTE]

Bob,

These are well made masks of 10 oz. leather with a full welt... with as sharp as the bit is and the blunt force of it being dropped from who knows what height, the mask did not fail... it was overcome by the blade it was made to protect... Under normal use, ware and tear, these masks and optional sheaths will protect the bit and the users for years to come...

Peace, Rooster
 
Rooster is correct, the mask is high quality. I don't know exactly what happened, but if the box was dropped, the bit could have slipped between the welt and the outer leather, slicing the threads.

To Dead's question: The machete suffered no damage, and it did contact the soil from time to time, although there are almost no rocks at all in this river bottom soil. The axe was mostly for larger branches suspended over the trail.

I sent photos of the bit to Council to ask their advice and see if they want to look at it. I'll let you know what they say. But this isn't about whether Council is a good company. I'm sure it is. This was just about sharing my experience with their new axe. A few months ago, I tested the edge stability of a number of large chopper knives, including this machete. The machete was the only blade to fail while chopping an oak dowel in half. But for this work, it performed like a champ. No blade damage. Today, I did some more work on the trail. I didn't take the axe, just the machete. I had to hack through a bunch of small downed alders. The machete did really well, almost as well as the axe.

UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_243_zpsgm6t859s.jpg
 
Back
Top