now i am pissed off

T

thekuntawman

Joined
Nov 28, 1999
Messages
235
www.huntedmovie.com

look for "train for combat" and then find "kali"

after all of the talking we do about what are the true philippine martial arts, authtentic martial arts of the philippines TODAY....(kali vs. arnis and eskrima) now we have the non-martial arts public is told from this website, and the movie, that the ancient art of kali is pass down for hundreds of years in secret. this is so much bullshit the people who gave this information KNOWS they art is arnis-eskrima with a new "revived" name of KALI. so now, every authentic philippine martial arts instructor who might benefit from the popularity from this movie, is going to be passed over, so that the movie goer can find this "ancient secret art" of KALI.

this is my problem with you guys who use the words and throw them out to all the non-FMA who dont know the truth. pananantukan, kinomutai, blind princesses, muslim kali, and everybody wears a machete....these informations are being given over and over by men who might been told the myth a long time ago, then they found out the truth, now they are continuing to tell the garbage they know is not true to people who dont know better.

so where does this leave the FILIPINO philippine martial artists and his students? we are over looked, so that the ignorant can chase fancy stories about stuff they read in the magazine and computer, and now, the movies.

YOU GUYS KNOW NOW, WHAT IS KALI AND WHAT IS THE TRUTH ABOUT PHILIPPINE MARTIAL ARTS, AND YOU STILL WANT TO TELL YOUR OWN VERSION OF OUR HISTORY. why not? you do it with every body else history, the filipino might as well be next.
 
Hello Guro Gatdula,

I don't understand your reason for being "pissed off", is it the word "Kali" or how the description of the FMA's that pops up on the Hunted movie site ? I would hope that this movie will expand the general public's view of Filipino fighting arts, and will help to make them more aware that there is more than just, "karate" out there that they can train in.

All the best

Guro Steve L.
 
Two really important lessons I learned for myself after years of martial arts...

Take care of my own backyard before looking after somebody else's.

Acquire and learn some anger management skills / courses.

IMHO, for what it's worth...

Addendum: as an aside, the people that consulted for the movie belong to a school that is extremely skilled. I have trained in Kali schools and continue to train in them. Even though I don't agree with all their training methodolgies, I think they are realistic and are rooted in sound traditions. I think everybody deserves a piece of the pie and nobody can claim it all. I believe that education and encouragement, rather than chastisement, goes a long way in being constructive.
 
for technqiue, there is no difference of arnis kali and eskrima. but 99.9999% of what you see is "kali" out there was eskrima or arnis, and the name was changed to "kali" for whatever reasons. yes, i have heard the "just a name" garbage, but let us please tell the truth:

* there is no REAL DIFFERENCE OF KALI, ARNIS AND ESKRIMA, THAN JUST A NAME. KALI IS NOT "MORE COMPLETE" OR "MORE ANCIENT"

*yes, maybe a long time ago there was KALI being used as a word, maybe a separate style, but not any more. and don't listen to the "the philippines has 1,000 languages so how do you know" garbage too. maybe in a barrio somewhere there is some old guy who kept this art alive in secret in his family for 400 years, but none of the people who claim this word today are part of that group. they are all arnis/eskrima who use the word KALI today.

*styles of philippine martial arts have many categories, but most of them only have 3 or 4. the only real reason i can see a style today having so many categories is if the instructor created them, but this does not mean his style is better or "more complete" than styles with 3 categories. really from what i see most styles who claim to have all these categories and weapons they teach, only have a little bit in each, then a whole system of 3 or 4 like everyone else. the only school i know about who has many categories that you can study just that weapons or specialize in them is ernesto presas' ARJUKEN, where you can come and sign up to learn just the chakos or just staff or just single stick.

"AUTHENTIC KALI SCHOOLS"
GAUDIOSA RUBY---COMJUKA ARNIS, KUNTAW NG PILIPINAS
LEO GAJE/PEKITI TIRSIA---PEKITI TIRSIA ARNIS
BEN LEMA SCIENTIFIC KALI....---LIGHTNING SCIENTIFIC ARNIS
SAYOC KALI---PEKITI TIRSIA ARNIS
DAN INOSANTO'S KALI/JKD---SERRADA ESKRIMA, EDGAR SULITE'S ESKRIMA, VILLABRILLE KALI (his teacher in the philippines is known as a ARNIS teacher)
RICHIE ACOSTA'S KUNTAW KALI---DOCE PARES ESKRIMA, KUNTAW NG PILIPINAS, LSA (ben lema)
ILLUSTRISIMO KALI---ILLUSTRISIMO ARNIS

this is all i can think of. i cannot criticize the use of the word KALI because i use it too in some of my advertising to get people in the door. but i NEVER tell someone that KALI is more ancient and complete and passed down through the years...and you learn it here. especially when you know better, it is dishonest to tell people this stuff. no matter what your technique is or how good it is, why tell people a false history of another culture
 
Originally posted by shmoopiebear
Two really important lessons I learned for myself after years of martial arts...

Take care of my own backyard before looking after somebody else's.

Acquire and learn some anger management skills / courses.

IMHO, for what it's worth...

Addendum: as an aside, the people that consulted for the movie belong to a school that is extremely skilled. I have trained in Kali schools and continue to train in them. Even though I don't agree with all their training methodolgies, I think they are realistic and are rooted in sound traditions. I think everybody deserves a piece of the pie and nobody can claim it all. I believe that education and encouragement, rather than chastisement, goes a long way in being constructive.
Click to expand...

i dont think this is message is for me. my "back yard" is fine, i am happy with my students and there performance. and 2. i dont have anger management problems.

i never said the skill of those people are not good. i dont know and really dont care if they are good. my problem is, when the FMA finally get attention in the movies, the first thing you tell them is the "ancient KALI passed down through the years to us" garbage? "kali is more ancient, and more complete?" what good does this do to the people who decide not to chenged the names of their style? one of my old students, who is a filipino, missed a few chances to study arnis from some friends of his family in the philippines, because he was waiting to find a "KALI" teacher. he probably thought how ignorant his grandpa is, that he never heard of kali. how about all the people who will walk into the school of a highly qualified FMA teacher, but walk out because there is no "12 categories" of FMA? how about the filipinos back home who will TAKE A FOREIGNERS MONEY AND "SELL" HIM SOME KALI/DUMUG/PANANTUKAN/PANANJAKMAN/KINOMUTAI? false information is always bad.
 
"this is so much bullshit the people who gave this information KNOWS they art is arnis-eskrima with a new "revived" name of KALI."

Guro Gatdula,

We all know that Hollywood loves to glamourize things. It's possible that the technical consultants or "the people" as you referred to them did not even provide the info on the website. You yourself said that you haved used the word Kali to draw in students. Maybe the producers of the movie and/or website want also draw in people to the movie by creating a mystique about Kali. In any business, it's all about marketing. Kali/Arnis/Escrima existed prior to the movie and will continue to exist after the movie. It's the content not the name that really matters. Besides, I think any publicity is good publicity. Karate, Ninjutsu, Aikido...all have had their 15 minutes of fame. With the Bourne Identity and now, the Hunted, I think its time for Filipino Martial Arts to finally get it's share of exposure.

Respectfully,

L. Fernandez
 
You are absolutely right in what you are saying, Mr L. Fernandez. I was one of the choreographers and we did not provide info for the web site, even our BIOS are not completely accurate, Paramount Pictures has people to research all these things and they don't always get it right. We try to guide the Hollywood people and the huge machine that is a 80 million dollar picture. But in the end we don't have all the control or even most of the control of all the fights, let alone advertising.

One of our goals going into the movie, was to try and represent the FMA's as best that we could, in the process we were sometimes battling with stuntmen who had had a few seminars at best, producers, directors, actors, etc., who have the own ideas what they want. I have been a movie goer for many years and always wished to see FMA's represented, we tried to do it.

We are SAYOC KALI that is the name of our art !! But we are also in the brotherhood of FMA's and we never forgot that, for one moment.

And by the way SAYOC KALI is not Pekiti Tirsia Arnis, they are two different arts, anyone who has looked at both can see that.

Tuhon Tom Kier
SAYOC KALI
 
Let me set some things straight .

No one told anyone anything, that has been implied here erroneously by KUNTAWMAN.

One has to understand the HUGE juggernaut that is the film industry to realize that the knife consultants don't write the freakin' web content for Paramount Pictures. You gotta be kiddin' me. Also check MY quotes in the Production Notes area .

I even mentioned that KALI is the term used here in the WEST. The web folks just spelled eskrima wrong becuase they asked me quickly over the phone and didn't recheck the spelling.

So before running on to Bladeforums implying we the consultants are liars try reading the WHOLE website and maybe next time the benefit of the doubt will go to your fellow FMAs brothers..

Gumagalang,

---Rafael Kayanan--
SAYOC KALI
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I am quoting somebody famous and was actually quite wise. I think it might be appropriate to recall it here...

"It's just a name... don't make a fuss over it" --- B.L. - J.K.D.
 
It is not Kali but it is Kalis Kalis. The second word is silent when spoken. This is from ancient handwriting of Tagalog.
 
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