Off Topic: Proxy Sales Etiquette

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Hard Knocks

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Since there's a good chance that trying to land a CPK is going to involve some proxy arrangements, and since I've had some questions by PM, I thought it might be a good idea to lay out what to expect in a proxy deal. It is possible that I will miss something that others can add to, or some of you might have experience in a proxy deal that went one way or another. Why was it good? What made it bad? Feel free to fill in the gaps.

First, what is a proxy? Merriam-Webster's definition: "a person who is given the power or authority to do something for someone else." In this case it will be authorizing someone to make a purchase for you.

Obviously there will be an element of trust between parties in a proxy purchase. Proxy deals work much better between parties with a previously-established relationship.

Here are some things to consider before entering a proxy arrangement:

#1. Buying by proxy is a deal between you and your proxy. This type of deal should in no way put any extra burden on the maker; i.e. the person standing as proxy should not request the maker to ship to any address other than his own. It is the proxy's responsibility to reship orders to the final owner.

#2. You should expect to pay extra when buying by proxy. Your proxy has secured your blade and will be taking on extra expense in order to ship it to you. Depending on how funds are transferred, your proxy may have fees that need to be covered as well. Make sure that it costs your proxy nothing monetarily to secure your knife for you.

#3. Make sure to get the funds to the person acting as proxy in a timely manner. This is a point that needs to be worked out between the two of you. Some proxies will need to recoup funds that they have spent shortly after the sale, and then get shipping costs from you in a second transfer. Others might be content to wait until the knife is in their hands and ready to ship to you so that the whole thing is wrapped up in one transfer. Absolutely expect to reimburse your proxy before he/she ships your blade. Good communication is key. Work this out early so that there are no surprises for either party.

#4. If you have your heart set on a certain color or material combination, make sure to convey that information. A little flexibility can mean the difference between a score or not in some of these fast sales. Ask yourself what you want and also what you can live with. For example, 'I really want a 3V blade and black micarta scales, but will be happy with any scales as long as the blade is 3V.' That's the kind of thing a proxy needs to know so that he/she can adjust on the fly. If you are absolutely dead set on a certain combo, convey that as well. For example, 'This will be a gift for my boy, and his school colors are black and blue, so I only want it if you can grab one with black & blue g10 and a black sheath.' Of course this may or may not apply to some sales with limited options, just be sure to communicate.

It's probably clear by now that there's a bunch of things that can go wrong with proxy buying. If you can avoid it, do so. Should you decide to ask someone to proxy for you, use someone you trust, and that trusts you. And, be patient and understanding of the hoops the proxy is trying to jump through to nail down your much-coveted blade. This thread should not be viewed as a promotion of buying by proxy. Rather it should be viewed as guidelines to help such a deal to go as smooth as possible.

These are the things that are coming to mind off the top of my head. I've had good experiences so far with this kind of thing. I'm sure others have had less than stellar experiences at times. If you've got something to add, feel free to do so. It will be good if someone considering this gets all the pros and cons before jumping in with both feet.

Cheers

David
 
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Hey HK: it's the spelling police here! Change the word in your title to etiquette and then you have it all down pat :)

On a separate note, once for fun maybe on April 1st or so, Nathan should put in the description that he has 10 special buckets full of turd for sale and then let's watch as to how fast they sell :D
 
Thanks for the thread! A lot of good info there to help people new to the idea.

I am hoping that the announcement Nathan made today regarding the field knife that there will be a list being made in the next couple weeks will take a lot of pressure off the Friday sale. Hopefully it goes well and can be introduced in the further models as well.
 
Hey HK: it's the spelling police here! Change the word in your title to etiquette and then you have it all down pat :)

On a separate note, once for fun maybe on April 1st or so, Nathan should put in the description that he has 10 special buckets full of turd for sale and then let's watch as to how fast they sell :D

Well learn something every day......I just learned that the meaning of edicate is you're not edjumicated enough to spell etiquette! :D

Thanks for the thread! A lot of good info there to help people new to the idea.

I am hoping that the announcement Nathan made today regarding the field knife that there will be a list being made in the next couple weeks will take a lot of pressure off the Friday sale. Hopefully it goes well and can be introduced in the further models as well.

I've been getting a few PMs, so I thought I would hit the highlights here and in the S!K forum as those are the two places I've been asked the most. I tried to keep it pretty general, and I absolutely agree that a list here in CPK will take a ton of pressure off. :thumbup:
 
I think nothing is wrong with proxy purchases, as long as the real purpose is to simply buy a knife by proxy for us, or for collecting etc.

No one has yet mentioned something Nathan said,that he doesn't want to see people buying for immediate flip/resale, not those very words, but certainly the meaning. It will eventually be inevitable that aftermarket selling will at some point be a given, but early on, I betcha anyone attempting it, if discovered, would be shunned by all the Carothers Forumites, not just Nathan.
 
Personally, I have no problem with people buying multiples if they want more than one. There are plenty of legitimate reasons for folks to do this, including having a spare or getting one for a friend or as proxy.

Where I have a problem is speculators who swoop in in-front of everybody and buy up stuff that other people need with the intent of turning around and flipping it to those people for profit. It raises the cost to everybody which reduces the value, and lines their pockets at everyone else's expense. To my knowledge this hasn't been happening. But if/when it does I'll start to exercise my right to refuse sale.

Knife collecting is supposed to be fun. There's no reason to tolerate an asshole.
 
I think nothing is wrong with proxy purchases, as long as the real purpose is to simply buy a knife by proxy for us, or for collecting etc.

No one has yet mentioned something Nathan said,that he doesn't want to see people buying for immediate flip/resale, not those very words, but certainly the meaning. It will eventually be inevitable that aftermarket selling will at some point be a given, but early on, I betcha anyone attempting it, if discovered, would be shunned by all the Carothers Forumites, not just Nathan.

I absolutely agree. Should someone decide to take advantage of the system it would be good to consider how many eyes quietly watch the exchange and feedback forums for the goings on.

Personally, I have no problem with people buying multiples if they want more than one. There are plenty of legitimate reasons for folks to do this, including having a spare or getting one for a friend or as proxy.

As a dad/son/brother in a family full of hunters I appreciate being able to grab a couple with your blessing.

Where I have a problem is speculators who swoop in in-front of everybody and buy up stuff that other people need with the intent of turning around and flipping it to those people for profit. It raises the cost to everybody which reduces the value, and lines their pockets at everyone else's expense. To my knowledge this hasn't been happening. But if/when it does I'll start to exercise my right to refuse sale.

Knife collecting is supposed to be fun. There's no reason to tolerate an asshole.

I'm really glad that you posted that here Nathan to confirm your stance. The limited supply has kept a lot of the flipping down to this point. I don't know what will happen with some larger quantities coming out, but there's a chance it might increase the secondary turn over. I'm just not sure what the market is in for, but with you taking a strong stance against speculator flipping I am confident it will be held to a minimum :thumbup:
 
All good info posted here. I very rarely sell off any knives, I just love knives and handle options kill me lol. I love multiple colors which I guess is a problem lol.
 
Where I have a problem is speculators who swoop in in-front of everybody and buy up stuff that other people need with the intent of turning around and flipping it to those people for profit. It raises the cost to everybody which reduces the value, and lines their pockets at everyone else's expense. To my knowledge this hasn't been happening. But if/when it does I'll start to exercise my right to refuse sale.

Fortunately, it does not seem like there have been people trying to flip your knives yet. Unfortunately, that is not true for much of knife community. I saw so many dealers / flippers at Blade each with a group of 5-10 "friends" entering many of the lotteries for customs. It sucks for those of us that like to collect, but it is what it is I'm afraid.

In regards to proxies, I proxied for 4 BF friends at Blade for various things without issue. It's typically only something I'll only do for a friend or someone that I have dealt with in the past.
 
A problem with multiple proxies is we end up with multiple shipping address and billing information for a particular order. I'm okay with simple proxies because it reduces complexity where a person buys a knife for another person and ships it to them (it saves one shipping step reducing cost and risk), but there is a problem with multiple proxies, both for us and for the people coming to the sale but not getting in.

In order to keep things fair and allow everyone who comes to the sale to have a good shot at getting what they came for, I'm going to limit it to one purchase per post. That purchase can be for multiple knives, but if someone is buying multiples they'll need to plan on paying for and receiving those multiples. Otherwise they'll need to make multiple posts. I think this is fair because it still allows everyone to get what they want, and it gives the people with slower fingers or connections a fair shot at getting what they came for too.

Multiple proxies = multiple orders = multiple posts




The idea here is to bias the brisk sales we've been experiencing towards those who actually come to the sale. A person can proxy for someone if they want (I think that's great) but limiting sales to one order per post prevents someone from coming in and placing orders for all his friends who couldn't be there and bumping out the slower finger folks who came to the sale.

So, to be completely clear:

Proxy sales are fine. That's nice of you to help out a buddy and thank you for your order.

Multiple knives in a particular order are fine too (all paid for at the same time in the same payment, shipped to the same place)

Multiple orders in the same post are a problem (multiple payments coming from multiple people and shipping to multiple places)

Multiple orders in multiple posts are fine. If you want to order a knife for you and your buddy (and he's going to send a separate payment and we're shipping to a separate address), please do. In separate posts.


When we eventually get our inventory up to larger levels and sales last a little longer than they have been, getting multiple posts on a sale shouldn't be a problem, but the delay in getting two posts into the same sale will allow other people who have come to a sale a better chance of getting what they came for. I think it's a fair way to spread the love, reduce frustrations, and get new people into the mix.


I was hesitant to put limits into place like this. First I don't think it's my place to tell people what to do. Second I don't want to be the guy dictating to his best customers how they're supposed to buy his knives. I like keeping things loose and simple. But, we were starting to get into a territory where many or most of the sales were proxies, and multiple orders per post were pushing a lot of other people coming to the sale out and frustrating people. I hope you all find this a fair system for dealing with the on going shortages we've been having.

Lastly I want to say thank you to everyone for your interest in our work. This is (from my point of view) truly a good kind of problem to have. Jo, Mark and I genuinely appreciate your interest in our work and your support. The ability to focus on making high performance knives in the way we see fit without any outside dictates other than following our passion for performance and value is a huge blessing that wouldn't be possible without the continued support and interest of a lot of passionate knife knuts. We appreciate all of you.
 
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