Official Response to Article in Sept Tactical Knives

Jim March

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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So we fight. Don, you can say this is a done deal but the truth is, a lot BS happens in the capitol because nobody thinks it's possible to do anything.

Well guess what? Free rent to the Million Mom March paid for by the City of SF was a "done deal" too. Ain't no more!

Jim
 
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Jim,

Oh...I have no doubt you can raise a stink about everything, and a stink should be raised...

But you and I, we're just extremists Jim, we're paranoid Jim. I mean, if we're right, do you and I get a free dinner at an expensive Sushi Bar on AKTI's tab or something?

All because we refuse to accept this whining from those in Law Enforcement.



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Usual Suspect
Ipsa scientia potestas est aut disce aut discede
Some of my Knives and other neat things
 

CJ Buck

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Gentlemen,

I guess all cards are on the table. We are in disagreement. I will be in Sacramento next wednesday supporting SB 274 as the official representative of AKTI.

Jim, Mitch Kessler was the author of the letter in Tactical Knives...not a typo

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CJ Buck
Buck Knives, Inc.
AKTI Member #PR00003


 

Jim March

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"All cards on the table"?

Like hell they are.

CJ, was a "criminal control" alternative banning knife carry based on past criminal actions proposed during negotiations? If so, and it was struck down, what were the objections by the CDAA and/or the law enforcement people?

Your position is that we should trust you and the DA/LEO sources, but you won't describe the negotiations, and the CDAA keeps the debate files behind a friggin' password.

Sigh.

Jim
 
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jim March:
...and the CDAA keeps the debate files behind a friggin' password.

Jim
</font>

Hey man, look, they have to do something, it's not like they can lock everyone up. So, they go after the knives.

The people are still going to walk on the charges anyway, you won't, you'll be made an example of.

Let's face it, a "Jury of your Peers" ain't quite what it used to be...this is all pointless, meaningless symbolism.

I'm going to go get a glass of O.J. right now...DAs. What a HOOT!

 
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Jim,


I was not involved in the negotiations with the CDAA and LEO Representatives so I don't know if a 'criminal control' alternative was proposed.


However, I strongly suspect that if it was the reaction from those groups would be negative and their arguments would follow the lines:


1. Criminal Control as you have proposed is not proactive enough. We want to curb violence before someone commits a crime.


2. We don't have the resources to effectively enforce your Criminal Control proposal. (The logic of this argument escapes me since the resources don't exist to effectively enforce the agreed on legislation.)


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AKTI Member No. A000370

[This message has been edited by SDouglas (edited 06-13-2001).]
 
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Mr. Douglas,

I'm quite confused. You are more or less in agreement with us as to the focus of Law Enforcement and Judicial People, yet, you believe and insist that we must give concessions to remain, "The Good Guys" in the eyes of the same groups...

The logical conclusion that can be drawn from your last post is, the Law Enforcement Establishment will continually blame inanimate objects for the acts of psychotic or criminal individuals with the ultimate penalty paid by the people that are those the Establishment wishes to protect?

As per your last statement, you sound like me.
 

CJ Buck

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Jim, I have stated my course of action, "my cards", and I am following through on that in Sacramento.

The criminal background aspect was not part of the negotiations. It should have been discussed. I would be only guessing to anticpate what law enforcement or legislative reaction would be. It sounds large and confusing with the potential for a substantial fiscal impact. Obstacles but not insurmountable.

I asked our lobbiest how he thought we should proceed with switchblades in california in the future and he said he was more than willing to initiate a 3 year plan where we pick around the edges, like maybe butterfly knives, build support and establish an informational foundation of real facts and statistics, and then push for a knife violence reduction act...

He felt it would need law enforcement support and participation to get through.

I do not have AKTI approval or a business/funding plan for a campaign of this magnitude but this has definitely caught my interest.

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CJ Buck
Buck Knives, Inc.
AKTI Member #PR00003


 

Jim March

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OK, that's what I thought. It wasn't even brought up.

CJ, that sort of proposal WAS brought up right here on BF over a year ago. Had you posted the snailmail address of people involved in the process that we the "BF public" could have sent written comments to, that proposal would have been raised.

Instead you guys did "back room deals" without public input. That's exactly how the worst mistakes the NRA has occasionally made happen. You posted updates long ago on what was happening, but utterly ignored the resulting input on the threads you started.

Sigh.

Well, at least I know they never even considered the "criminal control" alternative.

Jim
 
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About the "criminal control" alternative... if you can convince the CDAA that it would be a viable alternative to more knife laws, then that's great!

However, in Colorado we already have a law that says that convicted felons can't carry a "weapon", which can include any kind of knife. The law isn't an alternative to anything here; it's just another one of many knife laws.

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Cerulean

"The hairy-armed person who figured out how to put an edge on a suitable rock made it possible for us to be recognizably human in the first place." - J.K.M.
 
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Mr Rearic,

I am very much in agreement with you and Jim March that Legislatures should be targetting Criminal Behavior rather than Inanimate Objects.

I also agree that the people who want to ban knives and guns are for the most part unreasonable and will not be satisfied. They will perceive AKTI as unreasonable no matter how we try to compromise.

The people that I am concerned about perceiving AKTI as reasonable is that very large group of people that don't love knives or guns but do understand that people commit crimes instead of inanimate objects.

These are people like my wife, mother, grandmother and many of my coworkers who don't really understand my love of knives but aren't afraid of the fact that I carry them.
It is this group that AKTI cannot afford to alienate by taking the position that "There can be no limits placed on our Right to Own and Carry Knives".

Instead we need to operate from the position that any limits placed on our rights to own and carry knives must be CLEARLY balanced by an increase in public safety.



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AKTI Member No. A000370
 
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The thing that I find amazing is when these people who think up weapons restrictions in this case knives go home after a hard day at the legislature they think nothing of picking up and using a 14" butcher knife to dice the evening meal. These people never once put 2 and 2 together.
Bob

[This message has been edited by Strider (edited 06-14-2001).]
 
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by SDouglas:
Instead we need to operate from the position that any limits placed on our rights to own and carry knives must be CLEARLY balanced by an increase in public safety.</font>

Back to my original point, there will be no increase in public safety for two reasons which cannot be denied;

1. Criminals are criminals because they break laws. If a person is willing to face Life in prison or the death penalty for killing someone, do you think they care about the one or two years the pocketknife violation will bring?

2. Criminals will always obtain the weapons and accessories they desire. Firearms, edged weapons, bullet resistant vests. As far as knives go, the Federal Government could literally BAN Cold Steel, Benchmade, Buck, Spyderco, ever single POCKETknife Manufacturer in this country, and it would not drop crime. Most criminals don't use POCKETknives, they use icepicks, razors and kitchen knives. Of those that do use POCKETknives, they would simply switch to something easily available.

So...I still don't see the point.

 
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Don,

You and I understand that these laws will not curb violence for the reasons that you have stated.

However, We need to make sure that the group of people I have described perceive our arguments as reasonable instead of reactionary.

I personally believe that the best way to do that is to engage Law Enforcement and the District Attorneys in the manner that AKTI has done.

Did AKTI push back hard enough? Maybe not, but I believe that they pushed as hard as they thought they could without appearing reactionary.

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AKTI Member No. A000370
 
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Mr. Douglas,

Yes, I understand your point.

But next time, you need to push a lot harder.

We all need to counteract the media lies, and it ain't gonna get any easier. Quit pretending these laws are going to either fight crime or placate the politicians--they will do neither.

When I see a REAL HARD PUSH from AKTI, then I'll join.

I just hope Mr. Buck is right, and that CA LE is not interpreting this too far. But even "selective enforcement" is not to my liking. It's too easy to abuse.

If this passes, we will be watching.

Karl

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"Celebrate the diversity of inclusive, self-esteem nurturing, multicultural weapons arts." Karl Spaulding, The Safety Guy
 
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Mr. Douglas,

It is almost insane to debate this with you, Oregon being a RARE example when they overturned their Switchblade Law for vagueness (if I remember correctly), once rights are lost, they are seldom returned.

Read Mr. Buck's comments on the Switchblade Problems, he is on the money.

The idea is to not give them up to begin with, reactionary?

You say some people don't understand, Wife, Mother, etc., so? That really is a side issue to be honest. I don't really care what some people think.

I do know that this is the road to ruin.

With all due respect, there are any numbers of things out in the big, hard world, that alot of people don't understand, does that mean we have to cow-tow to everything under the sun?

Jeeeeez...where did AMERICA go?

We're arguing, again, over POCKETknives.

Damn, you'd think I was lobbying to have children IMPALED on them or something.

Why can't someone go up there and simply offer up the RADICAL idea that these are POCKETknives?
 
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