Offset handles, Game processing, and Blade shapes

[deerrockknives]

Hey folks,

I’ve been wanting to post this thread for quite awhile. In my search of bladeforums there has been some talk of this, but really not as much as I think it deserves.

Let me preface by saying I have field dressed probably more animals than most. I used to work as a wildlife biologist and would perform necropsies on hundreds of deer and elk. This is what lead me down the rabbit hole of what makes a good field dressing knife. I’ve used every kind of blade design imaginable and here are some common themes I’ve noticed. Keep in mind I’m nit picking (but isn’t that what the knife hobby is all about?):

-Drop points: good solid design of course. Have you ever noticed though that when you go to resharpen a drop point, the belly of the knife is always substantially more dull than the flat portion of the blade? This bothered me as I felt like I wasn’t using as much of the sharpened edge as I should be. This lead me to a trailing point…

-Trailing point: more gradual belly line I feel allows you to use more of the edge, and the acute point is advantageous in certain scenarios of dressing game. On the flip side, it also can be disadvantageous to have a pointy tip around the guts, hide, etc….this got me thinking more about the handle relationship to the blade.

- When I field dress, I am rarely holding the handle the way it was meant to be held. I typically end up holding it about halfway back in a pinch grip, so I’m allowed to use more of the full edge while processing.

Basically what I’m saying is this: I feel knives that put your knuckles more in line with the edge are far superior for game processing. Think of the Canadian belt knife pattern, or if you’re a folder guy the spyderco spydiechef chef or Kapara (not saying those would be great game processing knives, they just allow your knuckles more clearance). In my experience though, 95% of the hunting knives out there are not designed like this. Why? I’ve read some stuff where people say that it’s better to have the edge in line with the center of your hand because it’s more controllable, but isn’t that just more for woods task? I’m rarely doing that type of stuff. For me, knives are mostly food prep, or game processing.

Anyway, this is a bit of a rant- and food for thought.

 

[bikerector]

I think I discussed a similar thing in my most recent newsletter, but described it from a different perspective. Where you're using a knife relative to your waistline. If cutting more towards the ground, a more laid back more curved blade makes sense, like a trailing point, parang, or lamb skinner. Around the waistline, you more regular knife styles come in as the better option and sense we try to do most of our cutting in this comfortable "strong" position, it makes sense that most knives are more neutral like this.

As we start getting above waistline and often without a solid backing like a cutting board or the ground, straighter edges make a lot of sense as you're not using much of the belly and often material comes off the front of the blade in these scenarios. Not a lot of cutting is done that high because it's tiring and a weak position, but wharncliffes orneven hawkbills can be preferred for such things.

This is a very general group of statements as it ignores many other aspects in a knife's design. It also assumes that slicing is the primary method of separating material.

 

[deerrockknives]

I think I discussed a similar thing in my most recent newsletter, but described it from a different perspective. Where you're using a knife relative to your waistline. If cutting more towards the ground, a more laid back more curved blade makes sense, like a trailing point, parang, or lamb skinner. Around the waistline, you more regular knife styles come in as the better option and sense we try tk do most of our cutting in this comfortable "strong" position, it makes sense that most knives are more neutral like this. As we start getting above waistline and often without a solid backing like a cutting board or the ground, straighter edges make a lot of sense as you're not using much of the belly and often material comes off the front of the blade in these scenarios. Not a lot of cutting is done that high because it's tiring and a weak position, but wharncliffes orneven hawkbills can be preferred for such things.

This is a very general group of statements as it ignores many other aspects in a knife's design. It also assumes that slicing is the primary method of separating material.

I totally get what you’re saying, and agree. I feel like most knives are designed with that waistline/above waist cutting in mind. With a hunting or field processing knife though, that design in my eyes is at a severe disadvantage as you’re only using (mostly) the that first 1/4 of the blade.

I just find it odd that most hunting knives are designed like that, but nobody really seems to talk about it.

 

[JoeBusic]

Let me preface by saying I have field dressed probably more animals than most. I used to work as a wildlife biologist and would perform necropsies on hundreds of deer and elk.

You're like gold on the subject then. Could you express your wishes exactly what would be a perfect knife for you? Some pictures from parts of others? Or I post my designs for criticism? I did speak with some hunters and the feedback is meh. They really don't know what they want.

 

[deerrockknives]

You're like gold on the subject then. Could you express your wishes exactly what would be a perfect knife for you? Some pictures from parts of others? Or I post my designs for criticism? I did speak with some hunters and the feedback is meh. They really don't know what they want.

Here’s some photos. My idea for the perfect field dress knife is still bouncing around in my head. I’ve recently acquired a 2x72 grinder and plan on making my own patterns to test out (and maybe eventually sell some here). I want to arrive at the perfect pattern for dressing game, and do very thin grinds on them.

 

[DMG]

I think part of the problem is an ideal field dressing knife is one size and shape. A knife to quarter/bone out a medium to large ungulate has to be longer. I am interested to see where this thread goes.

 

[deerrockknives]

I think part of the problem is an ideal field dressing knife is one size and shape. A knife to quarter/bone out a medium to large ungulate has to be longer. I am interested to see where this thread goes.

I agree. I’ve thought many times that the ideal scenario is to have two knives. One knife for boning/quartering (I find 4” to be a solid length), and one small skinner so you don’t accidentally puncture the hide, guts, or aid in removing the tenderloins (if doing the gutless method).

 

[ScarFoot]

Great topic for a thread! I started making knives this year and essentially began with trying to come up with a perfect (for me) game processing knife for whitetail deer and smaller. The first attempt is a small thin drop point that is essentially all belly and a pretty good point. I made it with either a standard pinch grip or pinch grip with index finger on the spine in mind. The second was my take on a slightly harder sweeping santoku style blade (similar thought to your spydiechef comment). I didn’t really offset the handle so it could be used more easily for general purpose tasks if needed. I made it thicker for harder pressure use in mind too. I haven’t had a chance to try them out yet other than cutting stuff around the house. I’m curious to see how my thoughts on the designs change after I use them for their intended purpose.

 

[DMG]

I agree. I’ve thought many times that the ideal scenario is to have two knives. One knife for boning/quartering (I find 4” to be a solid length), and one small skinner so you don’t accidentally puncture the hide, guts, or aid in removing the tenderloins (if doing the gutless method).

This may be gross to some but I live in an area where people hit deer with their cars pretty regularly. I have pulled back straps and hams off quite a few on the side of the road using a fillet knife. It will be dull fast if it cuts the hair and hide but it is pretty nice for getting in there and slicing meat along the spine. Plus there is usually a folding fillet knife in my truck.

 

[JoeBusic]

Butchers for dressing game have two knives in a sheath. One is a skinner and one looks general for harder tasks like hide, tendons and such. Is it even possible to make one design for all? Steel wise it could be. Design...dunno.

 

[JoeBusic]

Point me to a video where someone dresses game and explains the proces and intent.

 

[l1ranger]

this is one of those things that may be real important to people that are processing lots of game, but those people are few and far between.
In my experience, the typical hunter may field dress a deer, maybe 2 a day. Field dressing here is removing guts and dragging the deer out, but I tend to use the same knife for for skinning once back to the house/camp. only twice in 30 years have I decided to quarter and pack a deer out of the woods.
If its too warm to hang, I typically use the same knife to take off quarters and other meat - rather than having to clean a second knife.
If I can let it hang, I'll typically use a boning knife to break down the meat a day or so later.

my current knife is a buck paclite skinner. it was a gift several years back, I put it in my hunting bag and have used it ever since. it works well for me so far
The second knife that ScarFoot posted looks like a useful blade for this.
A hunting knife is one of spots that I am looking to upgrade my current setup. The Buck works, but between hair and bone, it needs sharpening after each use

 

[deerrockknives]

Great topic for a thread! I started making knives this year and essentially began with trying to come up with a perfect (for me) game processing knife for whitetail deer and smaller. The first attempt is a small thin drop point that is essentially all belly and a pretty good point. I made it with either a standard pinch grip or pinch grip with index finger on the spine in mind. The second was my take on a slightly harder sweeping santoku style blade (similar thought to your spydiechef comment). I didn’t really offset the handle so it could be used more easily for general purpose tasks if needed. I made it thicker for harder pressure use in mind too. I haven’t had a chance to try them out yet other than cutting stuff around the house. I’m curious to see how my thoughts on the designs change after I use them for their intended purpose.
View attachment 1992023View attachment 1992024View attachment 1992025

Those patterns look great, nice work. I do tend to prefer a slightly slimmer blade for field dressing to get into tight places but the belly line on that second one looks very nice and useful. Keep tinkering and share your thoughts!

 

[deerrockknives]

This may be gross to some but I live in an area where people hit deer with their cars pretty regularly. I have pulled back straps and hams off quite a few on the side of the road using a fillet knife. It will be dull fast if it cuts the hair and hide but it is pretty nice for getting in there and slicing meat along the spine. Plus there is usually a folding fillet knife in my truck.

Not gross, I hit a deer just the other day! I got a road kill permit and took all the meat from it. Filet knives work ok, especially if they have a more upswept tip.

I use filet knives a lot when processing an animal at home. Kind of relates back to what bikerector was saying about cutting above the waistline (typically processing/trimming meat on a table).

 

[Alberta Ed]

Very interesting discussion. I used a Russell Canadian Belt knife to field dress my first mule deer, and it still works well 40+ years later. My only gripe is that the slim handle can get slippery when bloody. My ideal hunting knife remains the Cold Steel Master Hunter.

 

[deerrockknives]

Butchers for dressing game have two knives in a sheath. One is a skinner and one looks general for harder tasks like hide, tendons and such. Is it even possible to make one design for all? Steel wise it could be. Design...dunno.

This is true, but butchers typically have the animal hanging up, or meat on a table. Im usually dealing with game on the ground. So I feel the design of the knife needs to be different.

 

[deerrockknives]

this is one of those things that may be real important to people that are processing lots of game, but those people are few and far between.
In my experience, the typical hunter may field dress a deer, maybe 2 a day. Field dressing here is removing guts and dragging the deer out, but I tend to use the same knife for for skinning once back to the house/camp. only twice in 30 years have I decided to quarter and pack a deer out of the woods.
If its too warm to hang, I typically use the same knife to take off quarters and other meat - rather than having to clean a second knife.
If I can let it hang, I'll typically use a boning knife to break down the meat a day or so later.

my current knife is a buck paclite skinner. it was a gift several years back, I put it in my hunting bag and have used it ever since. it works well for me so far
The second knife that ScarFoot posted looks like a useful blade for this.
A hunting knife is one of spots that I am looking to upgrade my current setup. The Buck works, but between hair and bone, it needs sharpening after each use

Interesting point. I think with a lot of midwestern and eastern hunters, they typically are able to just get the animal out whole and take it to the processor. Minimal cutting involved.

Living out west though I typically have to break the whole animal down and pack it out over miles.

 

[bikerector]

This is true, but butchers typically have the animal hanging up, or meat on a table. Im usually dealing with game on the ground. So I feel the design of the knife needs to be different.

Have you ever tried a marbles woodcraft style knife? I found it to have too much upsweep to be good as an all around bushcraft knife but thought it would make an excellent field dressing knife while still being pretty good for the rest of the job at home. The woodcraft and Kephart were pivotal influences in my bushcamp knife's design.

It's hard to find a good woodcraft anymore since the brand is now being made in China at budget prices, but there are still some Marbles or copies around. I got my hands on a Buck varient.



I also thought the Hess pioneer shared a lot of the same characteristics, just smaller, and slight clip point, and what ended up being the dealbreaker for me was the shorter than I like handle.

 

[deerrockknives]

Have you ever tried a marbles woodcraft style knife? I found it to have too much upsweep to be good as an all around bushcraft knife but thought it would make an excellent field dressing knife while still being pretty good for the rest of the job at home. The woodcraft and Kephart were pivotal influences in my bushcamp knife's design.

It's hard to find a good woodcraft anymore since the brand is now being made in China at budget prices, but there are still some Marbles or copies around. I got my hands on a Buck varient.

View attachment 1992076

I also thought the Hess pioneer shared a lot of the same characteristics, just smaller, and slight clip point, and what ended up being the dealbreaker for me was the shorter than I like handle.

View attachment 1992075

I haven’t, but I like the looks of them. I mentioned how I typically end up holding the knife hallway back on the handle (I think I do this just to get more knuckle clearance) I tend to prefer a more neutral handle for that reason. Oval shaped work well.

Another thing too is if you have that offset handle like a belt knife pattern does, the point doesn’t necessarily have to be as upswept and acute like in a trailing point.

 

[oldmanwilly]

What about a Lamb Skinner type pattern? From what I have read above, am I correct in thinking something like this, but slightly modified to have the cutting edge a little lower (beneath the knuckles), would be ideal?



For what it's worth, I used a vintage Marbles Woodcraft to clean and quarter a few deer last year and think it's almost perfect for the tasks, but for the short handle and point being upswept above the handle.