Oil vs water on "oil stones".

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Nov 7, 2013
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Out of curiosity piqued in another thread where someone mentioned oil worked much better than water/soap for them, I decided to get some norton sharpening oil and use it in place of water/dry. I usually sharpen dry and just scrub the filings off with a soapy toothbrush and water. First thing I noticed on the norton crystolon was that the oil quickly became a "wet sand" of SiC and filing. Besides slowing the sharpening process, this made it almost impossible to feel what angle I was hitting, which is important for me because I've learned to hold a consistent angle by feeling rather than seeing. On my hard arkansas stone (which has absolutely no trouble polishing any already sharp steel to a near mirror, even s30v pre-diapaste) it just wouldn't cut after the first few passes. I had to scrub it clean before it'd do anything.

Not really sure why oil was ever used in the first place. I should mentioned I completely filled the stones back up with oil and removed all soap by first water soaking them overnight, then drying them all day, then re-soaking them in oil overnight.
 
Why use oil on the stone?

I have come to really believe that the second rule of life applies here, as it does to many things. "In the end, it's always about the money."

Aside from making a mess, the only thing oil has done for me is to contribute to the profit margin by buying those cans pod 'honing oil' when I was young. I'm not sure how many cans are sold by Norton, Buck, and everyone else jumping their profits a bit more, but I'm sure it's nothing to sneeze at.

I haven't used oil in so many decades now, ever since I read John Juranitch's book about sharpening. I use my stones and hones dry and just dust off afterward. Seems to work just fine, and with a little stropping on the back of an old belt gets a razor edge very easy.

There's so much hype and BS passed down about sharpening it ain't funny. Too many people trying to make like it's some rocket science or hoodoo.
 
Again, it never fails to interest me the differences in perception. I heavily rely on tactile feedback when sharpening, and find it to improve with use of oil. I even apply a very thin film to my diamond plates.

I also find the debris that would otherwise potentially clog the stone by laying on top of the surface, to be largely lifted off in the oil. On waterstones, a mix of binder and water is used to float the swarf. Water alone is not as effective in this regard though is capable of holding some swarf in suspension, all it really is doing is preventing it from being ground into the stone too much.

By floating it, the stone surface is less encumbered and grinds faster and cleaner. The bit of floated swarf and abrasive also produces a mild lapping action that aids in keeping burr formation to a minimum. If the amount of debris suspended in the oil is enough to impede grinding (considering some of it isn't even resting on the contact area of the hone), why would we expect it to have no effect sitting on the surface of a dry hone? I find it does make a difference and has to be managed somehow for best results, oil is a convenient medium and also recommended by the manufacturer...

Only on very coarse stones do I find the mix of swarf and oil to slow the grinding process, and these stones have so much space between abrasive points the debris has plenty of low spots to fall into. Unit pressure is also very high which encourages the abrasive to break down sharp. As the unit pressure decreases as grit size decreases, tendency to glaze will increase - oil tends to keep the abrasives sharper at lower pressure.

It isn't a mystery or hoodwink, just properties of abrasives and how they interact with steel.

The swarf has to go somewhere - either it sits on the surface, falls into the gaps if possible, or is removed somehow - how often depends on how much debris is generated. Floating it away is a good mechanism. Consider how much better a hacksaw or drill bit cuts through metal when used with oil as opposed to dry. It doesn't impede stock removal, quite the opposite. Prolongs the life of the saw blade/bit as well.

On some abrasives, oil or water aren't needed. Compare a file to the saw/drill bit analogy. On wet/dry sandpaper I find use of oil to be a mixed blessing in that a slightly finer edge is had, but is tough to get all the swarf off the surface. If allowed to build up/dry out, the swarf/debris impede grinding. Likewise with water - yields a somewhat finer edge yet the swarf and debris seem to impact into the surface more and reduce lifespan. Even when used dry, if the swarf is allowed to build up the paper will still feel very rough, but grinding will slow considerably unless the debris is removed somehow - I use an eraser or synthetic wine cork. If it isn't cleaned regularly the life of the paper will be dramatically reduced, yet even then some plugged wet/dry will respond very well to a few drops of oil and continue cutting once the swarf is floated out of the paper.

On lapping films, a small bit of oil makes a huge difference in preventing the film from loading compared to water or dry.

On stones like Juranich's vitreous stones, the composition is designed to break down and be used dry - BTW they work very well with oil too.

I don't believe there is a blanket answer, but like everyone else I know what I have observed and that's what forms my opinion. I encourage folks to try both.
 
I bought into the oil on the stones for a while. It was always a PIA to clean those stones when the surface of the stone got clogged up with sharpening debris. Usually had to use another petro based solvent to clean them up. Converted to dry sharpening and sometimes use a small amount of water. Works just as well if not better and cleaning up the stones after use is much easier. Dawn dish washing liquid and s stiff bush do the job. Do the same on my diamond stones. Still think my Norton stones do just as well as the diamond stones in most cases IMO.
 
It is amazing the different experiences seemingly even with the same stones. Having tried everything from spit to water, slightly soapy water, very soapy water and oil. I generally prefer oil on medium Arkansas or my Norton. Dry seemed to simply clog the stone quickly and skate.
 
On my Arkansas stones I've found they load very fast with water or used dry. Using oil is a huge improvement for me.

With my course alum oxide stone (smiths) I haven't decided. Using it dry tends to heat up the edge when I'm sharpening fast and trying to remove a lot of metal. Using water seems to work alright, and so does oil though the swarf is thicker.
 
I had bought a Naniwa Eco stone in 120 grit. Technically a water stone, and I did use it as such for a few times. But then decided to go to oil. It is messy....no doubt about it. That stone seems to be very soft, you can actually gouge it very easily with the tip of the knife. But it cuts in a massive hurry, and the oil seems to float the steel shavings away much better than water. A cheap stone, no doubt, and will wear fairly quickly, but I really like using oil on it over the water.

I also use a very thin film of mineral oil on DMT and Atoma!
 
For the most part, I've also favored the feedback from a 'dry' stone, instead of oiled, as a wet stone (and wet/oily fingers) make it harder for me to feel flush contact. Wet hands also make it more difficult for me to 'feel' the edge condition (apexed/burred/whatever) with my fingertips; I prefer dry hands for that as well. There have been occasional exceptions, though; for me, it depends on the combination of which stone and which particular blade I'm sharpening, and even on the particular day and how my hands are feeling. I have liked using Norton's honing oil on the two hard Arkansas stones I've got (black hard pocket stone and a 6" translucent hard), for the most part. Either of those stones will load very quickly if used dry, and will become very, very slow.

With SiC stones in particular, the 'Economy' stones from Norton or Ace (or Sears, etc.) are cheap enough, that I've purchased several. It's easy then to dedicate one stone for 'dry' use and another for use with oil (or water/soap & water), if I choose to do so. For very heavy grinding of new bevels, when 'feeling' for the apex may not be as critical initially, I'd be more inclined to wet the stone one way or another, just to keep the heavy swarf flushed away. When closer to apexing, I'll often then transition to using the stone dry, so I get a better feel for detecting the full apex, when it occurs. On a dry stone in particular, there's a distinct and abrupt change in feel/friction when the edge thins to the point of the apex 'biting' into the stone, creating the first burr; that also happens with a wet stone, but it's sometimes much more subtle, depending on how 'slick' the wet stone is.


David
 
I just use some $5 Walmart wet & dry sandpaper wrapped around a wooden dowel to put a mirror polish edge on a s30v blade. It works great dry and is to cheep to care about ruining.
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I've found that the oil makes a huge difference in cutting speed for me. Not to mention it keeps the stones clean of swarf. When I first started using the economy stones I didn't really like the messy slurry but to me it really seemed to cut the steel very fast. For most of my sharpening I prefer the cleaner India stone but the economy stones course side is noticeably faster for me. Both which seem faster with oil. As I was getting started the oil helped me see my contact with the blade better as well if I held my head/light just right. The reflection off the oil let me tell where exactly I was and by the way the blade was interacting with the oil I could tell if my angle was right. Water didn't seem as easy to see as it would not stay on the stone as well, probably because it has so much less viscosity.

I can see why oil might not be as desirable due to the mess compared to dry but the SiC stones and Aluminium oxide stones sure seem to perform better with oil for me.well worth the clean up.

Interesting thread
 
Mineral Oil works best for me. It allows for a finer edge, coming off the stone on my Norton India. The stone does not get clogged and clean up is snap. Just wipe it off. Some folks must be OCD about this huge mess caused when using oil. Because I never get that. Hardly a drop comes off the stone. You can see the swarf is lifted off the stone as it's suspended in the oil. Clean up is simple, I just wipe the stone with a clean cloth and all the oil & swarf comes right off. My stone is now ready for the next sharpening session. DM
 
David, when I got that Naniwa Eco 120, I switched from water over to mineral oil. It was so thin (the oil) it went right thru the stone...all the way through and out! Changed over to SAE30....works MUCH better! That stone is very porous!
 
For what it's worth on this somewhat done thread, I reprofiled a stainless steel kitchen knife yesterday to a approx. 10 dps edge with a 20dps microbevel. The grinding for the 10 dps was done on a dry Norton Crystolon coarse (I wanted to see how they work dry, usually I use the norton oil). It clogged and lost aggression pretty quickly, switching to my coarse DMT took care of the rest (I was too lazy to clean up the dry Norton right away). So I think for more work, oil or maybe other "lubricants" are needed, for the final touch, burr removal, single strokes and maybe microbevel, I believe dry is better.
 
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