Okay... What's a guard?

Joe Duder

Joe Duder

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Jan 22, 2013
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I posted this here because I want answers from the guys that actually make knives. But everybody is welcome to chime in.

I've always believed that a guard is one of or a combination of the following - a portion of the handle, a separate piece of furniture or the actual ricasso of the blade that guards your hand from slipping onto the blade when working with a knife. So basically a puuko blade (see pic below) is guardless.

Question time.

First off- Is a guard a simple matter of opinion or is there an actual right or wrong definition of a guard?

Second- If the ricasso is even with the cutting edge, does that make it guardless? Even if the ricasso goes well past the handle actually guarding the users fingers from being cut during use. See pic below.
L2PW0xa.jpg



Third- What in the heck is a guard? Pics really help.


This is my definition of a guardless blade.
JaAAdUrl.jpg



Just to save the trolls some time...

pRDMZ7l.jpg
 
Not sure about an actual technical definition of guard as it relates to knives, but to me both of those forge-finish knives have guards. The bottom puuko does not have a guard. That is just my crazy opinion, tho!
 
Here's my take as a novice maker. The ricasso is the flat between the plunge line and the handle or bolster, it does not have an edge. The bolster is the piece after the ricasso with no finger guard. If it has a single finger guard it is a single branch quillon if it has two its a double branch. Next is the handle material and finally the pommel. The quillon/bolster down to the pommel is collectively known as the hilt. Hope that helps and you can do a google search for ricasso and click the "images" link that always comes up and there are some pretty accurate diagrams detailing this. My terms come from a book.

A mastersmith would likely know this and hopefully one can chime in and let me know how accurate my memory is :)
 
Hey Joe! I think of Andy's guards as different from what I typically think of when I talk about "guards". The Fiddleback knives are pretty much all perfect for pouch sheaths, but knives with "guards" (guard+bolster) are typically fitted to the type of sheath where the entire handle is outside of the sheath and has a full welt that surrounds the entire blade. I call it a stacked sheath because of the construction. I almost always use a strap and stud to aid retention.

As for technicalities, I believe it's up to interpretation by the knife maker, but that's just me. The ABS likely sees it differently as they are a judging entity.
 
This question makes more sense to me now that I can actually see the pictures (work firewall blocked them).

To me both the top two would be considered to have a guard in the sense the blade is lower than the handle and offers some degree of protection to your index finger versus what you have pictured in the last photo, well second to last, not the british guy. I have never seen guard used as a technical term, each piece is usually called by its individual name. I do see what you are saying about the second one because the ricasso is wider and drops below the edge. I would actually like to know if that is considered a quillon? At least by ABS standards.

Otherwise, if a debate started you pondering this, I say you are arguing semantics. Same as
"when is a knife is a sword"? Is it size? Gil Hibben made a 3ft folding knife and Stacy has a 3in samurai sword in his signature. Which ones the knife and which ones the sword? You'll probably get as many opinions as there are members :D
 
I always think of a guard as protecting your hand when you're cutting from something that can slide down the blade, rather than keeping your hand from slipping onto the edge.
 
I would call the top two knives "dropped edge" knives where the design functions like a guard.
 
a guard is a protection in place to avoid injury on the user's hand. Depending on the knife/sword type the risk for the hand is different, so different guards have been designed to better fit the purpose.
When the major risk is to slip the hand toward the edge a simple finger notch could be enough... on a dagger a cross guard is better suited to avoid slippage on stabbing and is also able to catch the opponent strikes.... and so on..
 
A knife making site.net says that a ricasso is the flat space before the guard (coming from the blade). The guard is "The term for the cross member attached to the end of the handle, next to the blade itself. This prevents the hand from sliding onto the blade." This has always been my understanding.
 
A guard is a separate piece of hardware to protect the fingers/hand. In some cases where a blade is forged or of a special shape the guard can be integral. However, a large finger choil is not a guard in my opinion.
 
so in your opinion what is the function of a large finger choil? and how do it behave differently in front of a loveless stile guard on a hunter?
 
A large finger choil may have some effect on stopping your hand from slipping forward, but it's likely not as effective as a guard. We're quibbling, though, I think. I think Stacey's definition explains it rather well.
 
The finger choil is to assure a good grip, to allow better ergonomics in cutting, and keep the hand on the handle behind the blade. It won't prevent anything from coming up the blade and striking your hand, nor will it totally protect your hand from slipping down the handle onto the blade. It is only as much protection as your grip allows. A guard will protect your hand from going forward and an object from coming up the blade and striking the fingers/hand. This is independent of how firmly you are gripping the handle.

If you compare this question to "What is a shin guard", the simple answer is , "anything that protects the shins from being struck by the hockey puck or a stick". However, if one is standing in the penalty box, the wall is protecting the shins from pucks and sticks...but no one would call the wall a shin guard. A shin guard is a dedicated piece of equipment. (OK, maybe the two questions are not exactly apples to apples, but you see my point).
 
Here is a classic guard, Joe.

IMG_4307.jpg


I would also consider a deep indentation in a handle such as seen in the Bark River bravo series an integral guard, if pronounced like in the top knife of the three.

1243360030-Gunny_013.jpg


IMHO the Fiddlebacks shown here have no guard. They just have a deep ricasso. Except if the scales in the bottom one in your photo followed that up it could serve as a makeshift guard.

I'm no expert though! I prefer the style featured on the first pic I posted above.
 
The guy who plays between the center and tackle or perhaps the shortest guys on the court ;)
 
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