Old Knife Restoration - WHY a No No

[Fort Henry Custom Knives]

Following a Thread that I started concerning Patina on forged carbon steel blades I have come up with another question. In my collection I am constantly concerned with the condition of my blades and I am also very concerned with condition when buying a new piece. It was noted in the other Thread that in the Art and Antique furniture world refinishing a piece usually dramatically reduces its value. I know that in some cases this also applies to older knives, my question is WHY? It would seem that a clean blade would allow the owner (or buyer) to see its true nature, allowing close inspection of all areas to insure that they are in good condition and authentic...? Why could the act of cleaning or the more dramatic refinishing of an older knife lead to it being LESS valuable??

 

[Will'em]

I would not aply this to knives, the steel will rust away eventualy an then no knife

 

[satin]

"Polishing an old blade removes all the original surface. This is like skinning a cat. When you are done it is still a cat, but it is no longer much use as a pet."
Bernard Levine


Just the way things are... its how collectors want them... as original as possible.

 

[Hawaiian]

Originally posted by satin
[BJust the way things are... its how collectors want them... as original as possible. [/B]

With original being the key word.

 

[not2sharp]

Collectors of older knives are looking for a knife they can use as a time capsule. Something that will give them a hint of how knives were made, and perhaps used, at a time and place which may very well be long gone. When you restore an old blade you are merely using the original as raw material for a new project. The result might be nice, but the polished removed the history just as easily as it removed the surface, so if it had any antique /collector value it is probably gone.

Also remember that the patina that builds up over time cannot be reproduced. It is probably one of the best ways to confirm that your piece has some real age. If shiny were the objective we could always go with one the reproductions that are constantly coming out of the old East Block and India. Lose the patina, polish up the surface, and you might have a hard time distinguising your original from one of the replicas.

Mild cleaning is fine. Do what you need to do to remove the active rust and loose dirt. But leave the metal and finish as is.

n2s

 

[Quiet Storm]

If you were into art and wanted to buy a Van Gogh, would you want someone to "re-paint" it in order to make the colors look fresher?

 

[Gollnick]

Mr. Quite Storm has hit it exactly.

The collector would much rather have what's left of Van Gogh's work, even if it's faded, even if it's cracked, even if some chips are missing, than anyone's attempt to "fix" it.

The exception to this comes in some kinds of Oriental cutlery. If the work is done in a ritually-correct way by a properly-qualified person, then the collectible value of these pieces can actually be enhanced... though I think many museum curators would disagree.

In general, the rule is to protect and conserve, but don't try to "improve."

 

[Gollnick]

Recently, a limestone box was discovered. This box is of the style known as an "Ossuary." This type of box was used by Jews between about 20 BC and 70 AD to store the bones of their deceased. There are many such boxed that have been found in varous archaeological digs. But this one has an inscription that translates "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus." If you are Christian or not, you can probably begin to appreciate the historic significance of this find.

But is it real? Forgery of archaeological artifacts, especially religious artifacts, is not uncommon today and it has been rampant historically. I'm told that if all of the bits and shards of wood believed to be part of Jesus' cross were gathered up, you's have enough wood to build a nice single-family house. Obviously, few if any of them are authentic. So, what about this box? Is it a fake from the middle-ages? It is a modern fake? Or is it real?

Limestone oxidized, it gets a patina, much like steel does. And by examining the patina on this box, experts have determined that the stone was cut approximately 2000 years ago.

That authenticates the box itself, but what about the inscription? Authentic and relatively insignificant ossuary boxes aren't uncommon and they generally don't bring very high prices for dealers either. So maybe some dishonest dealer hoping to make a lot of money took an authentic, but relatively worthless, ossuary box and added the inscription himself.

So, those same experts examined the patina on the inside of the inscription and determined that it is the same as that on the rest of the box. That proves that the letters were inscribed at about the same time the stone was cut.

This doesn't prove that the the James, Joseph, and Jesus mentioned are the Biblically-significant James, Joseph, and Jesus, but it certianly opens up that possibility.

It's a good thing that nobody cleaned that box up in order to "to see its true nature." It is that patina that reveals the true nature and helps to extablish the box's authenticity.

 

[calyth]

It was said that with genuine Japanese Sword, that if you did polish the rust of the tang (of the blade is fine), you'd at least cut the value in half cause it's the markings and the rust there that would tell someone when and who made them.
There might be similar things that may apply.
If you don't know whether it would affect the value, I'd suggest you not to do any work with it until you're absolutely sure.

 

[Grover_Cephas]

I'm not an antique collector, so maybe I can bring another perspective to this.

A deep, old patina is really beautiful. For example, I own a pair of Hiatt Darby handcuffs that were hand wrought sometime before 1948 and after 1800

They have the deepest, richest patina I've ever _seen_ on a piece of steel. They're almost brown. And they just won't rust.

Now, If I were to take a day to polish them back up to a high luster, it'd take at least another fifty years to get that gorgeous old patina back.

Now, you can buy a modern Darby repro for around $40.

If I preferred "shiny", there'd be nothing wrong with that. But I'd just buy a modern repro and leave the patina'd examples as they are for people who prefer 'em that way.

_My_ main reason for not polishing old knives is simple: There's only so many of 'em around, and shiny new knives are being produced every day. Why would I irreversably alter a rare object of beauty to make it look like a common one?