"Old Knives"

It's a fun knife. Parker was selling Utica/Kutmaster knives with many different advertisements and stamps. All new.

I think Charlie posted a photo of one in his barlow topic. I had a few of the other patterns.
 
supratentorial said:
It's a fun knife. Parker was selling Utica/Kutmaster knives with many different advertisements and stamps. All new.

I think Charlie posted a photo of one in his barlow topic. I had a few of the other patterns.
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I didn't know Parker had his hand in the Utica/Kutmaster brand, though it shouldn't surprise me.

Speaking of fun knives, I found one of those old Imperial "pen knives" yesterday. I cut down a ballpoint refill to fit it, I wonder how much ink it will spill in my pocket? :D
Imperial pen.jpg
 
r8shell said:
I didn't know Parker had his hand in the Utica/Kutmaster brand, though it shouldn't surprise me.

Speaking of fun knives, I found one of those old Imperial "pen knives" yesterday. I cut down a ballpoint refill to fit it, I wonder how much ink it will spill in my pocket? :D
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Those are fun knives! I've got a couple of them...

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r8shell said:
I didn't know Parker had his hand in the Utica/Kutmaster brand, though it shouldn't surprise me.
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I've heard several stories from the dealers affiliated with Parker... some whoppers. ;) Often the knives were described as "factory finds". Some say they were newly assembled from old unfinished parts--that seems more likely than finding hundreds/thousands of carbon steel knives without a single spot of rust in a building that was abandoned for half a century. There were a LOT of these knives. Some were marked Coca Cola. Some were marked Case and other desirable brands. They are fun knives if you know what you are buying.

waynorth said:
Kutmaster assembled all kinds of weird and wonderful knives a couple of decades ago, some at the behest of one Jim Parker. A shameful period, both in purposeful exploitation of the collecting craze, and foolishness and ignorance among the collectors themselves. This could be one of those knives.
Ooh and Ahh if you will, it's not even a good user because it is like a brick in your hand and pocket!
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bernard_levine said:
This is not a counterfeit. It is merely a brand new knife made for Parker Knife Collector Services, and marked with one of the 50 or so old brands that belong to Parker (plus a few other brands that he uses which do not belong to him). It is not a copy of any actual old knife, so it is not a counterfeit -- but one might properly call it a fantasy item.

This seller only sells new Parker knives like this. He calls them old, because his customers want to buy old knives that look new, without paying antique prices for actual old knives that look new.

If you click on his AboutMe link, you will see a nice photo of him receiving an award from Parker, for selling so many Parker knives.


Meg Whitman, president of eBay, admires sellers like this. Note his exemplary standing with eBay. She strongly believes that collectors should not worry about age and authenticity, but rather should just keep bidding on eBay. Maybe she is right. Anyone who cannot recognize that this is a new knife, does not deserve to have any old ones.

Most of the new Parker knives are made by Olbertz in Solingen. However this knife looks very much like a Utica.

BRL...
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knifeaholic said:
I do not know that Kutmaster (Utica) actually assembled the knives. Or that it was at the behest of Parker (though Parker did sell a lot of these fantasy fakes in his catalogs).

The version I heard was that when the Utica factory collection of authentic old knives was purchased, the factory also sold five tons of old knife parts.

Some enterprising fellow or fellows then cranked out a ton of fantasy knives (Kutmaster markings like this one but unreal patterns or knives with Coca Cola shields etc.) and also a lot of fakes were made by using the old parts and restamping the logos.

In addition to the 50's era Kutmaster parts there were also a lot of pre-WWII blades/frames/handles with a number of contract brands represented and these parts were assembled into completed knives as well.

The above is all hearsay pieced together from various sources.
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Luger1952 said:
Thanks Lyle for the nice comment on my Robesons!

Below are three MOP folders I acquired at at the recent OKCA show.

Top one is a Utica dog leg or serpentine pen Whittler. It is three inches long closed.
Middle one is a Valley Forge pre Boker VF in circle (so pre around 1916) sleeve board 3” two blade pen.
Bottom one is a Utica Swell Center ballon Pen Whittler. It is 3 & 3/8 inches closed.

Thanks for looking!!View attachment 899985 View attachment 899984 View attachment 899983 View attachment 899982
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THOSE ARE REAL BEAUTIES LLOYD - SALESMAN SAMPLE UTICA BIG TIME
CONGRATS
 
Thanks Rick for the nice comments on my pearls! Hope all is well with you. Missed you this year at OKCA!
 
Was on a roadtrip over the weekend, we found the house that my wife spent some of her childhood in. Time is a monster!
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Loving this one, such a treat to carry.
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Campbellclanman said:
I agree- quite the Knife old chap.

Seriously though Kev - that Knife is quite the exquisite piece lots of detail as our good friend Mike mentioned.
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I have no info on Empire whatsoever other than what Goins has... I'm curious for the approximate year on that knife especially since it has the "PAT APLD" stamped very minutely on the bolster; you can't read it with the naked eye. All the blades have nice half stop and full snap... I was stunned at how nice it was when I opened up the package because the place I got it from online had terrible pictures of it. I took a chance and I certainly don't regret it ;)
 
Beautiful Empire Kevin :thumbsup: :thumbsup:... no doubt a high end expensive knife (fancy pants and a big wallet :D) with MOP & all the milling and metal work - those pen knives were much more expensive back in the day compared to big jacks when you look at old catalog prices...

Charlie would be best to answer the possible dating given he had that awesome Empire collection but I will say dating by tang stamps is hard as they didn't change too much over the years. I do think and I may be mistaken but those stamped with Empire Knife Co/West Winsted/Conn were on the older side of their existence (1856-1930) - but your stamp was one used for many years.. You may be able to try and date it by searching for patent info but you may have to sort through alot of Empire patents as I am not sure what they were patenting here - the bolsters?? I tried to run a quick search but came up empty - "google patents" may be helpful and I did not try that route!!
 
veitsi_poika said:
I have no info on Empire whatsoever other than what Goins has... I'm curious for the approximate year on that knife especially since it has the "PAT APLD" stamped very minutely on the bolster; you can't read it with the naked eye. All the blades have nice half stop and full snap... I was stunned at how nice it was when I opened up the package because the place I got it from online had terrible pictures of it. I took a chance and I certainly don't regret it ;)
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Empire made some knives for Shapleigh. In this 1915 Shapleigh catalog scan there's both the Shapliegh "Diamond Edge" (left) and the Empire logos (right). The knives are marked "Diamond Edge" but appear to match your knife.

LvyNcLm.jpg


Here's another catalog from 1910

6M0L6zo.jpg
 
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supratentorial said:
Empire made some knives for Shapleigh. In this 1915 Shapleigh catalog scan there's both the Shapliegh "Diamond Edge" (left) and the Empire logos (right). The knives are marked "Diamond Edge" but appear to match your knife.

LvyNcLm.jpg


Here's another catalog from 1910

6M0L6zo.jpg
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Wow... simply awesome! Thank you very much :) I really stumbled upon a gold mine of great folks when I found the "Old Knives" thread :) The 42DEG is definitely the knife I have albeit with an Empire stamp... I just love that the title says (FANCY PATTERNS), LoL. Tomorrow is my birthday and I think I'm going to wear some fancy pants to work and carry my Empire MOP with pride :D Just amazing to find something in such good shape from 100 years ago. L LongBlade You read my mind as far as the patent search, that will be my lunch time project tomorrow :thumbsup: I have to think they may have patented the studded pattern around the bolsters and shield.
 
Have a great Birthday Kevin :thumbsup: :thumbsup: .... BTW - I also got a kick out of the Shaleigh catalog calling that knife "fancy" ;) .... and good luck on google patents - I think you are right about the patent - could be a combo of the bead work on bolsters and the shield... Forgot to mention - the thickness of the MOP handle covers on that knife are unique but not sure that would be in the patent - I don't think I ever saw MOP covers with that girth which probably also drove the price up :cool: ...
 
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