r8shell
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Are you sure it's not hiding below the bolster?
Beautiful knife, wherever it was made.
"Old Knives"
- Thread starter VCM3
- Start date
Beautiful knife, wherever it was made.
r8shell
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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- Jan 16, 2010
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Seeing that unique and interesting blade stamp on r8shell's pearl Simmons folder prompted me to post another old folder with a pretty neat blade stamp.
Commonly called a champagne knife, this is really more of a gentleman's folder which just happens to have a corkscrew and foil cutting blade along with a main spear and pen blade.
The front blade stamp reads "S & A" over "Germany". S & A stands for Sperry & Alexander which was a New York retailer that existed from circa 1893 to 1927. The more interesting blade stamp sits on the back side of the two spear point blades. It is a picture of a Centaur shooting a bow with the word "Centaur" underneath. It's a very well made German knife which could be called a whittler with the foil cutting blade as the center blade. With a handle length of 3-1/4 inches, it has nickel silver bolsters, shield, and side trim for the corkscrew. Some would call the handles pressed stag which is really just finely marbled genuine natural stag. A fine knife all in all with a century mark at its back.
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Commonly called a champagne knife, this is really more of a gentleman's folder which just happens to have a corkscrew and foil cutting blade along with a main spear and pen blade.
The front blade stamp reads "S & A" over "Germany". S & A stands for Sperry & Alexander which was a New York retailer that existed from circa 1893 to 1927. The more interesting blade stamp sits on the back side of the two spear point blades. It is a picture of a Centaur shooting a bow with the word "Centaur" underneath. It's a very well made German knife which could be called a whittler with the foil cutting blade as the center blade. With a handle length of 3-1/4 inches, it has nickel silver bolsters, shield, and side trim for the corkscrew. Some would call the handles pressed stag which is really just finely marbled genuine natural stag. A fine knife all in all with a century mark at its back.
View attachment 1074134
View attachment 1074135
View attachment 1074136
View attachment 1074137
Campbellclanman
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2007
- Messages
- 14,545
Wow- Thats a real nice old Gem Herder, Absolute attention to detail on the Tools on that Knife.
I would have called this Pressed Stag - Herder this is not so?
Old...... I am guessing that we knife addicts do like Knives that are old, I do for sure- and so do a great percentage of the Traditional Folk it seems, I like to collect very nice old Carving sets, usually old, old Stag ones if I can, to be honest I don't really go for the Silver handled sets at all- ornate as they may be.
I know this isnt really the proper place to place this - but I figure a lot of you will appreciate this post.
As I was saying - I have accumulated quite a few very nice Carver sets - you know the ones we get out at Christmas time to carve the Turkey with the lovely big Carving Knife and Fork to match - well I hope you do - it's kind of a special feeling when you do do this.
I did not yet have an old J.Russell & Co Green River Works set, and I always wanted an example that could take a worthy place in my collection...
I found something...
Lovely Old Stag, just a great Carving Knife and Fork, I really like the Ferules not over the top- just right, The Fork in my eyes is a work of art, they Tapered the Tangs on both the Fork and Carver....
I have picked up a lovely old- very old Russell Green River Box as well- I love this example, also I have (not the original from the box ) a set of six very early Table Knives - Jigged wooden Handles...heres the Box though ...
I would have called this Pressed Stag - Herder this is not so?
Old...... I am guessing that we knife addicts do like Knives that are old, I do for sure- and so do a great percentage of the Traditional Folk it seems, I like to collect very nice old Carving sets, usually old, old Stag ones if I can, to be honest I don't really go for the Silver handled sets at all- ornate as they may be.
I know this isnt really the proper place to place this - but I figure a lot of you will appreciate this post.
As I was saying - I have accumulated quite a few very nice Carver sets - you know the ones we get out at Christmas time to carve the Turkey with the lovely big Carving Knife and Fork to match - well I hope you do - it's kind of a special feeling when you do do this.
I did not yet have an old J.Russell & Co Green River Works set, and I always wanted an example that could take a worthy place in my collection...
I found something...
Lovely Old Stag, just a great Carving Knife and Fork, I really like the Ferules not over the top- just right, The Fork in my eyes is a work of art, they Tapered the Tangs on both the Fork and Carver....
I have picked up a lovely old- very old Russell Green River Box as well- I love this example, also I have (not the original from the box ) a set of six very early Table Knives - Jigged wooden Handles...heres the Box though ...
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Campbellclanman
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2007
- Messages
- 14,545
Here is something I am extremely happy to receive, but a knife that comes with questions.....
The knife is a fantastic original and honest Knife, a John Primble, India Steel Works - Harness Jack .....The only fault is a chip in the Bone- and the Photo's make this look so so bad compared to what it does "in real life"....
Nice Etc, Nice Bone, Hammered Pins, gorgeous Punch....
I study ( or try to )these Knives- in fact lately I am compiling photos of Punches, but for the life of me, I cant tell who made this punch, I want to put forward my views and invite others - their opinion on the maker - If only I could have some form of documentation / reference- this would make me very happy....
STUNNING , Deep Blade etch....
Here is the Tang stamps- it is said/ written that the more desirable Primble's are the India Steel Works, clearly showing the Stampings and the lovely Punch, the Walk and Talk of both Blade and Punch are extremely positive and firm - like the day this knife was made! I am showing both the front and rear of the punch here......
Stamped on the Rear of the Main Blade 05670
Another view..
My thoughts, I posted on page 791 of the Thread an gorgeous Townley HJ - Post #15801, Charlie came in and helped a couple of posts later - post # 15803 , I am 100% sure that that Townley is an empire made Knife- with connections to Challenge, either Challenge contracted Empire to make the Knife- or Empire sold their punches to Challenge.The Townley..
The Shield: The Primble has the same Shield - like the CHALLENGE HJ's,
The Knife would be exact as the Townly and Challenges .... though this knife has no Rats tailed Bolsters and also a Tip Bolster.
Same Grind on Blade, Same Swage.
The missing Pin: There is no small centre Pin on this Primble -just the large - where as when you compare the Challenge Knives and Empire Knives in the postings of mine and Charlies - Page 791... those two companies are exact - but this Primble has only the one centre Pin.
The Bone: I have a Voos, and also the Camillus Bone as well that looks very similar?
So my mind is bouncing in between a few different Cutlers of who? may have made this knife, in order of suspicion, ( the number 05670 stamped behind the Main may help greatly)
Challenge / Empire
Camillus
Robeson
Has anyone got a HJ with this Punch?
Has anyone have a knife with similarities with that number 05680 stamped behind the Main?
Thanks for looking folks, have a great day.
The knife is a fantastic original and honest Knife, a John Primble, India Steel Works - Harness Jack .....The only fault is a chip in the Bone- and the Photo's make this look so so bad compared to what it does "in real life"....
Nice Etc, Nice Bone, Hammered Pins, gorgeous Punch....
I study ( or try to )these Knives- in fact lately I am compiling photos of Punches, but for the life of me, I cant tell who made this punch, I want to put forward my views and invite others - their opinion on the maker - If only I could have some form of documentation / reference- this would make me very happy....
STUNNING , Deep Blade etch....
Here is the Tang stamps- it is said/ written that the more desirable Primble's are the India Steel Works, clearly showing the Stampings and the lovely Punch, the Walk and Talk of both Blade and Punch are extremely positive and firm - like the day this knife was made! I am showing both the front and rear of the punch here......
Stamped on the Rear of the Main Blade 05670
Another view..
My thoughts, I posted on page 791 of the Thread an gorgeous Townley HJ - Post #15801, Charlie came in and helped a couple of posts later - post # 15803 , I am 100% sure that that Townley is an empire made Knife- with connections to Challenge, either Challenge contracted Empire to make the Knife- or Empire sold their punches to Challenge.The Townley..
The Shield: The Primble has the same Shield - like the CHALLENGE HJ's,
The Knife would be exact as the Townly and Challenges .... though this knife has no Rats tailed Bolsters and also a Tip Bolster.
Same Grind on Blade, Same Swage.
The missing Pin: There is no small centre Pin on this Primble -just the large - where as when you compare the Challenge Knives and Empire Knives in the postings of mine and Charlies - Page 791... those two companies are exact - but this Primble has only the one centre Pin.
The Bone: I have a Voos, and also the Camillus Bone as well that looks very similar?
So my mind is bouncing in between a few different Cutlers of who? may have made this knife, in order of suspicion, ( the number 05670 stamped behind the Main may help greatly)
Challenge / Empire
Camillus
Robeson
Has anyone got a HJ with this Punch?
Has anyone have a knife with similarities with that number 05680 stamped behind the Main?
Thanks for looking folks, have a great day.
Last edited:
r8shell
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2010
- Messages
- 23,966
What a neat gentleman's folder. I really like "pictorial" stampings.
I would think that set belongs here. This is "Old Knives" and that knife is old.Wow- Thats a real nice old Gem Herder, Absolute attention to detail on the Tools on that Knife.
I would have called this Pressed Stag - Herder this is not so?
Old...... I am guessing that we knife addicts do like Knives that are old, I do for sure- and so do a great percentage of the Traditional Folk it seems, I like to collect very nice old Carving sets, usually old, old Stag ones if I can, to be honest I don't really go for the Silver handled sets at all- ornate as they may be.
I know this isnt really the proper place to place this - but I figure a lot of you will appreciate this post.
As I was saying - I have accumulated quite a few very nice Carver sets - you know the ones we get out at Christmas time to carve the Turkey with the lovely big Carving Knife and Fork to match - well I hope you do - it's kind of a special feeling when you do do this.
I did not yet have an old J.Russell & Co Green River Works set, and I always wanted an example that could take a worthy place in my collection...
I found something...
Lovely Old Stag, just a great Carving Knife and Fork, I really like the Ferules not over the top- just right, The Fork in my eyes is a work of art, they Tapered the Tangs on both the Fork and Carver....
I have picked up a lovely old- very old Russell Green River Box as well- I love this example, also I have (not the original from the box ) a set of six very early Table Knives - Jigged wooden Handles...heres the Box though ...
That's one of the nicest sets I've seen, too.
Wow! That's a beauty of a knife, and I really like that style of punch. I've never seen that before, so I'm afraid I'm no help.Here is something I am extremely happy to receive, but a knife that comes with questions.....
The knife is a fantastic original and honest Knife, a John Primble, India Steel Works - Harness Jack .....The only fault is a chip in the Bone- and the Photo's make this look so so bad compared to what it does "in real life"....
Nice Etc, Nice Bone, Hammered Pins, gorgeous Punch....
I study ( or try to )these Knives- in fact lately I am compiling photos of Punches, but for the life of me, I cant tell who made this punch, I want to put forward my views and invite others - their opinion on the maker - If only I could have some form of documentation / reference- this would make me very happy....
STUNNING , Deep Blade etch....
Here is the Tang stamps- it is said/ written that the more desirable Primble's are the India Steel Works, clearly showing the Stampings and the lovely Punch, the Walk and Talk of both Blade and Punch are extremely positive and firm - like the day this knife was made! I am showing both the front and rear of the punch here......
Stamped on the Rear of the Main Blade 05670
Another view..
My thoughts, I posted on page 791 of the Thread an gorgeous Townley HJ - Post #15801, Charlie came in and helped a couple of posts later - post # 15803 , I am 100% sure that that Townley is an empire made Knife- with connections to Challenge, either Challenge contracted Empire to make the Knife- or Empire sold their punches to Challenge.The Townley..
The Shield: The Primble has the same Shield - like the CHALLENGE HJ's,
The Knife would be exact as the Townly and Challenges .... though this knife has no Rats tailed Bolsters and also a Tip Bolster.
Same Grind on Blade, Same Swage.
The missing Pin: There is no large centre Pin on this Primble - where as when you compare the Challenge Knives and Empire Knives in the postings of mine and Charlies - Page 791... those two companies are exact - but this Primble has only the one centre Pin.
The Bone: I have a Voos, and also the Camillus Bone as well that looks very similar?
So my mind is bouncing in between a few different Cutlers of who? may have made this knife, in order of suspicion, ( the number 05670 stamped behind the Main may help greatly)
Challenge / Empire
Camillus
Robeson
Has anyone got a HJ with this Punch?
Has anyone have a knife with similarities with that number 05680 stamped behind the Main?
Thanks for looking folks, have a great day.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2000
- Messages
- 4,490
Love the Primble
Campbellclanman
. The etch is awesome. Imagine that today, just move the decimal 2 places to the right Something gets lost in that translation for sure...
Campbellclanman
. The etch is awesome. Imagine that today, just move the decimal 2 places to the right Something gets lost in that translation for sure...
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2011
- Messages
- 15,193
Herder
What an interesting and beautiful knife ! Some serious skill went into its making. You just don't see S & A knives very often and what a treat
Duncan
Beauty overload ! That carving set is astounding !! I use mine to open mail ...perfect for the task with the thin blade. I love them.
Your HJ is man if eque, indeed...wow !!! That etch is perfection and the knife deserves to be framed !!! I can't stop looking at it...tonight I won't be counting sheep in my dreams
What an interesting and beautiful knife ! Some serious skill went into its making. You just don't see S & A knives very often and what a treat
Duncan
Beauty overload ! That carving set is astounding !! I use mine to open mail ...perfect for the task with the thin blade. I love them.
Your HJ is man if eque, indeed...wow !!! That etch is perfection and the knife deserves to be framed !!! I can't stop looking at it...tonight I won't be counting sheep in my dreams
veitsi_poika
Gold Member
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2016
- Messages
- 3,149
I could not resist this old stag Ulster Knife Co pruner... I'm really curious how old this one is considering it has integral bolsters. I really think this one could be late 1800s to early 1900s. This beauty has perfect snap still and full half stop... the wear that the handles show does not show too badly in blade
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veitsi_poika
Gold Member
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- Nov 25, 2016
- Messages
- 3,149
Here's another old Ulster I got a few weeks ago
waynorth
Dealer / Materials Provider
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2005
- Messages
- 30,093
Duncan, I have never seen a punch like the one on that Primble!! I wonder what Bernie Levine has to say about it!!??
As far as carving sets, there is nothing in this forum that is more traditional than those sets, and that is a particularly great Russell!! Keep them coming!!
As far as carving sets, there is nothing in this forum that is more traditional than those sets, and that is a particularly great Russell!! Keep them coming!!
Old Engineer
Gold Member
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2014
- Messages
- 9,449
My Friend ........... the Stag on the old carving set is just something to see . Thank you for showing it . So now I gotta watch for those too ?????Wow- Thats a real nice old Gem Herder, Absolute attention to detail on the Tools on that Knife.
I would have called this Pressed Stag - Herder this is not so?
Old...... I am guessing that we knife addicts do like Knives that are old, I do for sure- and so do a great percentage of the Traditional Folk it seems, I like to collect very nice old Carving sets, usually old, old Stag ones if I can, to be honest I don't really go for the Silver handled sets at all- ornate as they may be.
I know this isnt really the proper place to place this - but I figure a lot of you will appreciate this post.
As I was saying - I have accumulated quite a few very nice Carver sets - you know the ones we get out at Christmas time to carve the Turkey with the lovely big Carving Knife and Fork to match - well I hope you do - it's kind of a special feeling when you do do this.
I did not yet have an old J.Russell & Co Green River Works set, and I always wanted an example that could take a worthy place in my collection...
I found something...
Lovely Old Stag, just a great Carving Knife and Fork, I really like the Ferules not over the top- just right, The Fork in my eyes is a work of art, they Tapered the Tangs on both the Fork and Carver....
I have picked up a lovely old- very old Russell Green River Box as well- I love this example, also I have (not the original from the box ) a set of six very early Table Knives - Jigged wooden Handles...heres the Box though ...
Harry
Campbellclanman
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2007
- Messages
- 14,545
R8shell, Many Thanks for that - You would be surprised how nice those carving sets can get, I have many now of very old Sets- nearly all with outstanding stag!
Steve C - Thank you - that Harness Jack Is a great one - it rings all the bells and is a welcome addition to my HJ Collection!
Jamie - Thank you my friend - yeah she's a beauty all right - The Etching is Deep as well!
Eisman, you will find the standard sets probably around between $20 - $40 , but you wont get anything of decent DNA anywhere near that.
In the beginning I was buying anything that had nice stag, middle to range stuff- then they started to stockpile and really .... they didnt do much for me, so I started aiming higher and rarer, Im glad I did! Man there's some stunning Knives and Forks that I have now- what I need now is a spare room to display them
Gev my friend - The Lord of words, Thank you so much for once again your kind and wonderful comments, I have to admit I was a wee bit like a Child when I first unwrapped this Knife- my hopes were not dashed!
Aaaahhh Charlie, I was hoping you would come in, ok then - perhaps a post in Bernards forum, I like what I see in this Knife, its amazing I have been taking out all my old HJ's and photographed all of them, I am starting to look at them quite differently and its astonishing that when I pick up a HJ now - that I have owned for some time- I see different things in them- and I identify makers through the Punches etc- not all - but found myself doing that a few times the other weekend -and Charlie this is all thanks to you my friend - so THANK YOU Sir! I think this is very much like Martial arts - when you get into a very good Traditional scene ( like we are ) guys with the big heads when they got their Brown or Black belts, if they were to continue ( as a lot dropped out when they got their Black ) they were soon to learn that they haven't made the top - but just the beginning as they have completed their journey of really only being able to learn - and I think that its the same with the Knife world - I am FAR from my black belt in the knife world - but there's still time
I hope this does'nt sound silly.
Harry, Oh Mr Stag himself! lol - and its true - I love your examples that you have.
Harry, Please don't get me started on showing the Carving sets lol, there's many of them with mind blowing features - actually I sent Paul a really nice Old Keen Kutter Carving Knife and Fork- those two themselves are simply gorgeous!Paul loves anything with Keen Kutter on it!
I have sets, then at times there are only a Carving knife in a display box- again - trying to track the Maker down at times is a world of its own- there are some 100 years old and have Stag that shows the Hues of time and leaves one drooling. The different styling of the table Knives and Forks and how they change is quite amazing as well.
I remember seeing a Ivory Carving set fit for the Kings Table- and I say this with no exaggeration- hence it being at the Museum, the ornate carving in the Handles - the size, the Silver features of the Ferrules etc - I stood for over half an hour trying to take it in - simply out of reach beauty for a simple working man like myself.
No- No theres no need for you to start watching out for these Harry lol - theres one thing I dont need is serious competition
Steve C - Thank you - that Harness Jack Is a great one - it rings all the bells and is a welcome addition to my HJ Collection!
Jamie - Thank you my friend - yeah she's a beauty all right - The Etching is Deep as well!
Eisman, you will find the standard sets probably around between $20 - $40 , but you wont get anything of decent DNA anywhere near that.
In the beginning I was buying anything that had nice stag, middle to range stuff- then they started to stockpile and really .... they didnt do much for me, so I started aiming higher and rarer, Im glad I did! Man there's some stunning Knives and Forks that I have now- what I need now is a spare room to display them
Gev my friend - The Lord of words, Thank you so much for once again your kind and wonderful comments, I have to admit I was a wee bit like a Child when I first unwrapped this Knife- my hopes were not dashed!
Aaaahhh Charlie, I was hoping you would come in, ok then - perhaps a post in Bernards forum, I like what I see in this Knife, its amazing I have been taking out all my old HJ's and photographed all of them, I am starting to look at them quite differently and its astonishing that when I pick up a HJ now - that I have owned for some time- I see different things in them- and I identify makers through the Punches etc- not all - but found myself doing that a few times the other weekend -and Charlie this is all thanks to you my friend - so THANK YOU Sir! I think this is very much like Martial arts - when you get into a very good Traditional scene ( like we are ) guys with the big heads when they got their Brown or Black belts, if they were to continue ( as a lot dropped out when they got their Black ) they were soon to learn that they haven't made the top - but just the beginning as they have completed their journey of really only being able to learn - and I think that its the same with the Knife world - I am FAR from my black belt in the knife world - but there's still time
I hope this does'nt sound silly.
Harry, Oh Mr Stag himself! lol - and its true - I love your examples that you have.
Harry, Please don't get me started on showing the Carving sets lol, there's many of them with mind blowing features - actually I sent Paul a really nice Old Keen Kutter Carving Knife and Fork- those two themselves are simply gorgeous!Paul loves anything with Keen Kutter on it!
I have sets, then at times there are only a Carving knife in a display box- again - trying to track the Maker down at times is a world of its own- there are some 100 years old and have Stag that shows the Hues of time and leaves one drooling. The different styling of the table Knives and Forks and how they change is quite amazing as well.
I remember seeing a Ivory Carving set fit for the Kings Table- and I say this with no exaggeration- hence it being at the Museum, the ornate carving in the Handles - the size, the Silver features of the Ferrules etc - I stood for over half an hour trying to take it in - simply out of reach beauty for a simple working man like myself.
No- No theres no need for you to start watching out for these Harry lol - theres one thing I dont need is serious competition
Old Engineer
Gold Member
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2014
- Messages
- 9,449
Okay Duncan , I will make you a deal . I will look for them , buy them , tell you about them , but will not show you pictures . Will that work for you ???Harry, Oh Mr Stag himself! lol - and its true - I love your examples that you have.
Harry, Please don't get me started on showing the Carving sets lol, there's many of them with mind blowing features - actually I sent Paul a really nice Old Keen Kutter Carving Knife and Fork- those two themselves are simply gorgeous!Paul loves anything with Keen Kutter on it!
No- No theres no need for you to start watching out for these Harry lol - theres one thing I dont need is serious competition
Harry
Campbellclanman
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2007
- Messages
- 14,545
Harry, I didnt believe there was such a cruel streak inside you my friend - But I kinda get the hint lol....Please - it will take some time to take photos matey - I will try to start next weekend, and then post them up when finished!
Old Engineer
Gold Member
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2014
- Messages
- 9,449
veitsi_poika
Gold Member
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2016
- Messages
- 3,149
This knife speaks for itself
