"Old Knives"

Discussion in 'Traditional Folders and Fixed Blades' started by VCM3, Jan 21, 2008.

  1. rockman0

    rockman0 Gold Member Gold Member

    May 5, 2013
    I really admire a nice Challenge myself, here's some tested era jigging for comparison with the Clauss.

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  2. TheChunk91

    TheChunk91 Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 15, 2013
    I love seeing that knife Rob, such a great one!
     
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  3. rockman0

    rockman0 Gold Member Gold Member

    May 5, 2013
    Thanks Paul! I would be hard pressed to pick a favorite but this one would be in top 5.
     
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  4. Campbellclanman

    Campbellclanman Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Mar 10, 2007
    Augie and Rob - both of you gents displayed two very nice old Knives.

    Here is a Wee bit of a mystery, and a darned nice old Knife!
    I recently bought this Knife with a bunch of Sears Knives, My friend the Seller did a lot of research and asking of some very influential people in the know of Camillus Knives!
    There were three people mentioned whom were asked and each being probably the very best of whom would know about anything of the Camillus Knives and the History, mentioned names would add to the flavour of this story- but I personally did not contact these people and I would feel as I would be stepping out of line by mentioning their names.

    This Knife would have to be classed as immaculate, it has the original Salesman number still to be seen " S131"
    So research was done by the folks when asked about this Knife, the only trace in History of Camillus for this exact pattern or anything like S131 was a Marlin Spike example - and available in Jigged Bone only - so quite different.
    The Ebony is plain outright gorgeous, The extremely highly factory Polished Blade is in beautiful condition- the Swage lines are sharp, and the Swage goes the Length of the Blade. Great big Rat's Tailed Bolsters, along with the Thumb studded Can opener - one does not want any bit in the way of either of these Blades when they are out for their Walk and Talk! The knife is in Superb shape.

    Word comes back from the Gents.... S131, was found with other original Camillus Paper work, one particular piece dated 1915 had this Knife sketched out. This card is in the possession of a very well know Authority of Camilus and is among other all original Camillus Paper Work.

    It is said by this group that perhaps this Knife did not reach production, Camillus would make a Prototype of say 10 knives for them to be displayed in front of the Customer such as Canadian Navy, the Knives having been made in the size required by the Customer - and then the one or two of that group would be picked out, and the thinking is that this was one that did not get picked out for production, this would mean that there could possibly be a few in existence.
    Another thing that makes one scratch the head is the 4 line Stamps - could be mistaken for three on the opener - but the knife has 4 lined Stamping on the Main so this denotes the 40's period, I cant make any other assumptions - but the fact is the original sketch seems to be earlier- and this is from probably THE most reliable source, and that this knife has S131 still on the back of the Main.

    Rarity doesnt mean huge value, but as we know Rarity creates interest and I think theres a lot of interest packed into this one particular knife, as it is definitely a Camillus Made Knife- and where is it's kin?

    4 & 3/4 closed.

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    The reflection makes the rear of the Swage look a bit wonky-it's not- the Lines on this Knife are just Great!
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    S131..
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  5. rockman0

    rockman0 Gold Member Gold Member

    May 5, 2013
    Well written mystery Duncan:thumbsup: i agree rarity doesn't parallel monetary value but in some cases such as this knife rarity supersedes value in my opinion. That's a pristine rare old knife my friend:thumbsup:
     
  6. waynorth

    waynorth Dealer / Materials Provider Dealer / Materials Provider

    Nov 19, 2005
    That's a beauty, Duncan! It appears to have been a sample intended for military service (aboard ship??)
    Never having seen another, I would have to guess it is a prototype, or sample pre-production. Usually if a knife has been issued, there are dozens floating around! Nice find!! Amazing condition!
     
  7. Campbellclanman

    Campbellclanman Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Mar 10, 2007
    Thank you Rob and Thank you Charlie, kinda cool Knife imo, and thank you Gentleman for your kind comments.
     
  8. danno50

    danno50 Gold Member Gold Member

    740
    Apr 15, 2008
    Beautiful knife, Duncan!:thumbsup: I have a Camillus, with some similarities, which was made for the Canadian navy circa WWI. Mine is about the same size with a bone handles and a marlin spike. I will dig it out and take better photos.
     
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  9. danno50

    danno50 Gold Member Gold Member

    740
    Apr 15, 2008
    Mine is 4 7/8" closed. The marlin spike has a couple of dings, which I believe are a mis stamped broad arrow, indicating a knife made for the Canadian military.

    RIMG2012.JPG RIMG2013.JPG RIMG2014.JPG RIMG2015.JPG RIMG2017.JPG RIMG0422.JPG
     
  10. Augie

    Augie Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 23, 2014


    Great knife and write up Duncan, I think I know who you got that one from.
     
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  11. herder

    herder Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 24, 2007
    Thanks Campbellclanman, waynorth, and Augie.
    waynorth, While it does look like a dished type of shield, it's actually some poor photography on my end which resulted in a dark reflection on the shield. It is otherwise flat and shiny.
    Augie, nice and unusual Clauss model.

    Campbellclanman, fantastic Camillus salesman sample model, and I believe danno50 has unlocked part of the mystery to it. I would be a bit hesitant to date that knife by the blade stamp alone.
    That model sure seems to date to an earlier time based on the size, pattern, can opener, and the similar example as danno50's fine knife with a marked date of 1915.
    I have and have seen several Camillus knives that do not fall into the current tang stamp charts that most people use.
    Beautiful example with the great addition of being an untouched salesman model!!!

    danno50, also a great example of a Canadian military folder. There are a couple of very good military knife books from Michael Silvey and Ron Flook. Silvey's book covers U.S. made knives, while Flook's book covers British and Commonwealth models. There is a section towards the back of Flook's book covering some Canadian military models. It is interesting to note that while the British and American naval military used primarily sheep foot or flat-tipped blades in their folding knives, the Canadians used both flat-tipped and spear-point blades in their folding navy knives.

    Here is another WWI example by Wostenholm meant for Canadian use.

    BF Wostenholm Military WWI .jpg
     
  12. Campbellclanman

    Campbellclanman Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Mar 10, 2007
    Thank You Dan and Herder, yes that is the Knife that I mentioned Dan- I can guarantee that my knife and yours would have been in the same line up of choice for the Navy to choose from - yours won, we knew there was the existing Marlin Spike & Jigged Bone version, and yours is a great example.
    I have just heard back again from my friend, and he said that the person who has the information on this Knife has the Camillus Card dated 1915, and that this Knife was born in 1915 and has the original Camillus File card dated so, with the Sketch of the Knife as well as the S131 on that Sketch, If I named the person who has these- everyone would say- Oh ok...yep it is written in stone then!
    I may ask through my friend, if I would be ok to ask of a copy of this information- and of course pay for this, but I am always quite scared of this type of approach, we will see, but I think it would give this knife great meaning in it's existence.

    Herder, I agree, With the information received from such a source one can assertively say this is the same period as Dans, I just may see if I can obtain copies of this Card etc.
    Nice IXL my friend! Does this IXL have the Canadian Ordnance stamp on the Marlin Spike?

    Augie- You would be right with your suspicions, as I think I know who you are thinking of lol.
     
  13. Augie

    Augie Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 23, 2014
    Here is the Schatt&Morgan version of the same knife, most I have seen are marked for Canadian use.



    IMG_5776 (1).jpg
     
  14. Campbellclanman

    Campbellclanman Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Mar 10, 2007
    Augie :thumbsup:
     
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  15. danno50

    danno50 Gold Member Gold Member

    740
    Apr 15, 2008
    Thank you herder and Duncan. A lot of interesting information from both of you. The only military book I have is the Knife World compilation of articles from Knife World. It has a one and a half page write up on Canadian knives.
    Very nice Wosteholm, herder and Schatt & Morgan, Augie! Both nice examples in good condition.
    Continuing with the military theme, I have these two Sheffield knives. A John Milner and a Wade & Butcher (in obvious need of some light cleaning). I previously posted them in Jack Black's military knives thread. They seem to be identical to herder's Wosteholm, so I assume approximately the same vintage? Both are 4 7/8" in length. I assume both are British military, however, I can't find the British broad arrow mark on either of them?

    RIMG1236.JPG RIMG1234.JPG
     
  16. SteveC

    SteveC Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 13, 2017
    Great stuff fellas !
     
  17. waynorth

    waynorth Dealer / Materials Provider Dealer / Materials Provider

    Nov 19, 2005
    Here's another Schatt from the Canadian Navy that has sailed a few knots!! Probably from before Schatt & Morgan went bankrupt and became Queen City.
    Notice the broad arrow stamped on the marlin spike!! Note the copper Bail and the hammered pins. The Canadian Navy was founded in 1910! Canadian Schatt 1.jpg Canadian Schatt 2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
  18. Campbellclanman

    Campbellclanman Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Mar 10, 2007
    What a great old example Charlie.

    I like the Stove Pipe Kicks that followed my posts - Augie’s S&M and the Sheffield’s - Charlie’s possibly as well being so early?
     
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  19. 315

    315 Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 2, 2017
    I’m a bit happy right now, having picked this up today, courtesy of @black mamba!! Jeff, I think you’ve created a monster....

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  20. TheChunk91

    TheChunk91 Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 15, 2013
    You hooked on those jr cattles, eh now Jim? :D
     
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