Old Timer Hone Steel - any users?

J

Jamesh Bond

Joined
Jan 14, 2007
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I was recently gifted one of these, and I must admit, I had previously never heard of one.

Being a steel, I'm wondering how well it might work on hard, carbide rich alloys.

Its a peculiar thing. Like a flat bar with a sharp chiseled end, very sloppy ridges ground in it on the flat, and radiused edges that I assume are the "steeling" portion, although they too are full of valleys and depressions.

I'm commencing some Google-fu shortly, but was wondering if anyone can enlighten me more on this strange implement and it's best uses.

Either way, it's a cool item for the collection!

Thx!
 
Jamesh Bond said:
I was recently gifted one of these, and I must admit, I had previously never heard of one.

Being a steel, I'm wondering how well it might work on hard, carbide rich alloys.

Its a peculiar thing. Like a flat bar with a sharp chiseled end, very sloppy ridges ground in it on the flat, and radiused edges that I assume are the "steeling" portion, although they too are full of valleys and depressions.

I'm commencing some Google-fu shortly, but was wondering if anyone can enlighten me more on this strange implement and it's best uses.

Either way, it's a cool item for the collection!

Thx!
Click to expand...

Hi,
its not expected to work "well"
see article on burnishing
 
Jamesh Bond said:
I was recently gifted one of these, and I must admit, I had previously never heard of one.

Being a steel, I'm wondering how well it might work on hard, carbide rich alloys.

Its a peculiar thing. Like a flat bar with a sharp chiseled end, very sloppy ridges ground in it on the flat, and radiused edges that I assume are the "steeling" portion, although they too are full of valleys and depressions.

I'm commencing some Google-fu shortly, but was wondering if anyone can enlighten me more on this strange implement and it's best uses.

Either way, it's a cool item for the collection!

Thx!
Click to expand...

On hard, carbide rich steels it will not work well. Is possible to get OK results if you can match closely the grind angle, otherwise you'll get carbide blow out and chipping.

On low alloy carbide steel and fine grained stainless it should work well, especially as the RC drops into the mid to low 50s or high 40s. The higher the RC and/or carbide content the more you must match the original grind angle or your odds of drawing the edge out or chipping increase dramatically.

Is a very fast and efficient way to microbevel an edge. Keep in mind, it (edge grind finish) needs some texture to work best, somewhere for the steel to flow. Once the edge has been burnished smooth, any further burnishing will only draw out the steel. So a medium grit finish and a few passes at a slightly higher angle, use it for a few and repeat. After a handful of reconditioning the edge will need to be reground. If you begin with a coarse edge it can be used for more reconditioning sessions, the finer the edge the fewer times it will work well. At 6k or higher finish it isn't really worth using at all IMHO.

I'm not familiar with that exact steel, if the grooves are aggressive enough they'll also remove some steel just like a fine file, though have trouble cleanly removing the burr. Anecdotally, on low RC steel, mid 40s to low 50s it will actually increase edge retention due to some work hardening along the cutting edge. Its an old timey tool for old timey knife steels.
 
That's kind of my entire point. It won't work on my carry knives. It's basically an obsolete tool. Might see some use on my old hickory, but I doubt it. I have everything I need to sharpen anything, and that "everything" already does a smashing job.

Was hoping maybe I was missing some new secret idea, but suspected as much.

I wonder why these are still being made and sold on the big knife sites.

I guess I could have posted a link but I'm always wary of breaking a rule. I've been yelled at for some pretty dumb stuff here while watching others do the same thing all around me.

My luck. It makes me paranoid!
 
Its not that it won't work, more that it becomes very difficult to make work when there are other options.

Industrial use of roller burnishing has been used up to 63-64 RC IIRC, so it can still work. I've used it on D2 at 61-62 RC to take a working edge up to a hair whittling one with no carbide blow out. But, I had to hold the angle to maybe a degree or so higher than the grind angle - you could see evidence of burnishing almost the entire width of the edge bevel. Run it across at 5° higher and the carbides blow out, the edge draws out - it doesn't work well.

It should do a great job on your kitchen knives or filet knives. In context, there are exponentially more cheap knives sold than ones using premium steels. A tool like that still has value, just needs to be used correctly.
 
Exactly.

For me, however, the only value this gives me is a neat conversation piece. Any function it can perform, my other gear can do WAY better.

An interesting observation: the "grooves" in the flat are cut in stages, on the diagonal. The "staging" has left a TON of metal artifacts sticking up off the flat. It's pretty obvious that using even a dull blade on this will damage it. So I tried it out on an old hickory that I had sharpened with a file.

Before using the Hone Steel, the knife would shave and slice paper fine. After, there were bright spots all over the edge. I'll leave you to guess how it shaved and sliced paper. . .

So, again, obvious conclusions based on common sense. As I said, I had hoped to learn of some way this thing could actually be useful. Still a heck of a cool piece tho, for some reason.

Thx.
 
I'd beat it up on some of your less loved knives to get rid of the manufacturing burrs and keep trying it every now and then.

A lot of people like and use them and a couple have video. Not for everybody for sure but should be useful enough in a limited role. Admittedly I don't use any of my steels often but do take them out from time to time to stay familiar.

When traveling or vacationing its the most common class of tool to come across in a kitchen full of dull knives, so good to know how to use them.
 
Thx. Already watched a couple.

I'm under the same opinion I started with, and expected to keep: that this tool, even in a time where simple, soft steels reigned, is a flawed design.

The "steeling" surface is textured like an orange, and the manufacturing burrs on the flat are huge, permanent, and everywhere. You'd have to see it to believe it lol.

I just can't imagine this thing EVER doing a good job on anything, even in its heyday. The very contrary, actually.

I have smooth steel, glass, and fine ceramics for when I'm in a burnishin' mood. 👍

Since common sense PLUS experience shows that this actually makes an edge worse, it's going to become a display piece, like I figured. Yes, if it was all I had, technique and drive would make it work, but I have far better methods available. Shame tho, I was really hoping for an excuse to use it!

Guess I know why I've never heard of it around here!

Thx for the interesting conversation, guys.
 
For my kitchen knives in particular (typical inexpensive low/mid-50s HRC stainless stuff), I'm finding some usefulness lately in using a steel. In one use, I sometimes use it to strip away fine & fragile burrs immediately following edge touch-ups on a stone (I'm using an ACE Hardware AlOx stone more & more, for these). The types of burrs that will be affected by this are the ones that can be detected in slicing phonebook paper, i.e., those that tend to make the edge snag a bit, or make the cut 'turn' in the paper a little bit, turning in the direction the burrs are leaning. I can make a swipe or two or three on the steel after seeing this, and the edge will then slice clean & straight through the paper.

And in the other use, I'll usually give the edge a few swipes on the steel immediately after using the knife for fruit/veggie chopping or slicing tasks on a cutting board.

I recently dug out from storage a cheap Japan-made grooved steel which came with an equally inexpensive stainless cutlery set gifted to me by my mother, years ago. That's the steel I've been using, as described above. Within the narrow limits of the steel types it's made for, and also depending on the working edges being suitably 'ready' for being steeled (they can't be too dull), I'm seeing it can be a somewhat useful tool on the fly, as needed.


David
 
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There's a pretty detailed post on the Honesteel by member 'Codger_64' in the Schrade Knives Collectors Forum on BF. In particular, the post linked below is a good read:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...s-on-the-HS-1-Honesteel?p=3324798#post3324798

A tidbit quoted from the above-linked post (bold/underlined emphasis added by me):
"The true composition of the Honesteel is, according to the included sheet, "high carbon cutlery steel" (I occasionally see one with rusted spots) and impregnated with chromium carbide. It seems to be several times harder than common steel, as I have never seen one worn out. They are seven inches long, 1" wide, and the end opposite the stamp and hole is tapered to a chisel shape, purportedly for splitting deer pelvis."
Click to expand...

If impregnated with chromium carbide, as mentioned above, that would determine how effective (or ineffective) it may be on different knife steels. Steels with little or no hard carbides would probably see the most benefit (most/any of Schrade's blades, in their most common blade steels like 1095 or 440A), while those with significant chromium carbide content (D2, ZDP-189) might see some abrasive benefit, closer to burnishing. Steels with significant & much harder vanadium carbide content may not be helped much by it, save for some burnishing and/or burr removal or edge realignment.


David
 
True, but it still doesn't explain how one goes about NOT trashing their edge on the horrific burrs all over the flat.

And the orange peel is too smooth to seem abrasive.

Dude, even if I broke down after ten years and figured out how to post pics here, I'm not sure it would show what you actually see with it in hand. My friend also has one and it's identical, so it isn't just an anomaly.

Bleh. Anyway, Imma go read that thread in the Schrade forum now.

Thx!
 
Is yours a recent vintage version, i.e., imported under the Taylor-owned Schrade name? Or is it from the original USA Schrade? I'm wondering (but don't know) if those burrs and other finish issues have always been characteristic of these tools, or if it's just an artifact of the current manufacturer's process and/or poor QC. I'm assuming the linked post I referenced is more specific to the older USA Schrade versions in particular.

I believe you, in being concerned more about damage from the poor finish and heavy burrs. If chromium carbide is part of the makeup, it's capable of abrasion on simpler, less-hard steel types (chromium carbide is about 2X as hard as the hardened matrix steel itself), even if the finish seems too smooth. This is true of very fine/ultra-fine ceramics as well, and EEF diamond hones which otherwise can seem too 'glassy' to work. I have an EEF DMT hone which looks & feels too smooth to be effective; it just looks & feels like smooth nickel, but takes very fine swarf from a blade like nobody's business. An easy way to see if it's abrading at all, is to make a few swipes on it with the blade, then wipe down the tool with a Windex-moistened paper towel. Any swarf taken from the blade will be picked up and seen on the paper towel.

Another thought: Being the makeup of the honesteel is (or might be) basically similar to a chromium carbide-heavy blade steel, the burrs and other finish issues might be cleaned up by some rubbing/burnishing on a sharpening stone of AlOx or SiC. It'd be interesting to see how/if it's performance could be changed or improved after such treatment, as could be done by 'lapping' other stones in a similar manner.


David

Jamesh Bond said:
True, but it still doesn't explain how one goes about NOT trashing their edge on the horrific burrs all over the flat.

And the orange peel is too smooth to seem abrasive.

Dude, even if I broke down after ten years and figured out how to post pics here, I'm not sure it would show what you actually see with it in hand. My friend also has one and it's identical, so it isn't just an anomaly.

Bleh. Anyway, Imma go read that thread in the Schrade forum now.

Thx!
Click to expand...
 
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Just checked by buddy's steel again. It's definitely older than mine, and yes, a LITTLE smoother. But still rough enough to damage an edge.

Frankly tho, even if it's true that the old ones didn't have this problem, there's no excuse for making the new ones useless, right?

Almost makes you wonder if they are meant to be display pieces. They should change the instructions to display ideas lol. Then they can include the old usage instructions to put in a frame next to the display lol!

Thx!
 
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