Oneida Dust Seperator

Bill Siegle

Bill Siegle

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Messages
6,735
Anyone running one of the Oneida dust seperators for dust collection? I really need to improve my shop air but I cannot set up anything too complicated due to power restrictions in the shop and space. This unit hooks up to a shop vacuum and separates the dust before it reaches the vacuum. I'm wondering how this would work for intake of steel(sparks) and handle material. I'm going on the assumption of daily emptying as it is a small container. They have great reviews online but mostly from wood shops. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
If you are referring to the Dust Deputy separator, they work pretty good as far as any 2" system goes. The only drawback is they are not metal, and don't do well unless they are a few feet downline from the spark trap. Use smooth walled metal ducting to connect the trap and the dust separator. A basic spark bong at the grinder will take care of the hot sparks. The separator will suck up the air from the bong and drop all but the finest waste into the catch bucket.
You want a good size shop vac to draw lots of air volume through it.
Get the DIY version and put it on a 5 gallon steel drum with a strap on lid. You can use a drywall/pickle bucket, but they don't do as well with hot sparks as steel does. A steel pail should run about $15-25 and the dust deputy costs &60-70.
You can be creative, too. There is no rule that says the catch barrel has to be round or a bucket. I put one on a 10 gallon milk pail. All it needs is a lid that seals fairly air tight.
 
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I have a "basic metal made one". I also bought the container it sits on. It's true that 95% or more of what the unit collects goes into this lower container and never makes it to the vacuum that is needed to operate this system. I see it as being a safe system for metal unless you go to grinding titanium. I tried much more expensive systems but this has shown to be better.
Frank
 
Based on my testing, entirely unscientific and consisting of looking for sparks passing through a clear plastic tube on the outlet to the vac, the metal "Dust Deputy" trapped sparks just as well (or better) as a much more expensive commercial spark eliminator. We now have 2 metal Dust Deputies set up on metal 5 gallon buckets and hooked up to Dewalt DWV010 HEPA vacs as dust collection for the angle grinders. The hoses to the tools are replacement hoses for an ash vacuum, and look a lot like metal flexible electrical conduit covered with plastic. Still working on hoods for the tools that get more than 60% of the dust, but of the dust that goes into the vac hose, less than 2% gets through the cyclone to the vacuum.

We're grinding mostly mild steel, and ER70-S6 weld metal. YMMV for sparks from other materials like titanium. If you are going to mix tasks like grinding steel and handle material, I'd suggest separate systems. The $500 or so that would cost will be much cheaper than a "flame event" (that's what the makers of metal dust collection systems call a fire or explosion) Even with a real good clean out of the combustible dust from the system before going back to grinding steel there's still a small but real risk of a fire or explosion in the drum or vac body
 
Thanks for the info :) I was looking at the metal version already and I am glad to hear it will work for my needs. I don't do any titanium grinding so I can avoid those issues. Thanks for the suggestion of using the ash hose too. I will pick one up.
 
So HOW do you guys use this cyclone metal dust collector when you have a mounted belt grinder at a comfortable height off floor with a funnel to catch sparks to the cyclone plus have room for a bucket below. I'm confused. Any pictures?
 
The cyclone has an in and an out. You run a hose or duct from the catch funnel to the in and connect the out to the vacuum.
 
I use a plastic deputy for my wood/leather sander only. It works great. I think the steel one is a great idea, too... but I'm already set up with a system that does what I need it to do.

The one thing I will continue to mention in these threads is the need to address the dust you don't see. I found that the true danger is the fine dust that gets caught up in the air currents produced by the grinder, itself. That stuff does not go into a bucket or funnel under the contact wheel/platen. It gets spit back up and hangs in the air. IMO, you need a shrouded grinder with appropriately placed exhaust ports to collect/vent the fine dust more than you need to keep your floor clean.

Clip a magnet to your hat/shirt and grind for a day... You'll see what I am talking about.
 
What's a good way to shroud a grinder?

Rick Marchand said:
I use a plastic deputy for my wood/leather sander only. It works great. I think the steel one is a great idea, too... but I'm already set up with a system that does what I need it to do.

The one thing I will continue to mention in these threads is the need to address the dust you don't see. I found that the true danger is the fine dust that gets caught up in the air currents produced by the grinder, itself. That stuff does not go into a bucket or funnel under the contact wheel/platen. It gets spit back up and hangs in the air. IMO, you need a shrouded grinder with appropriately placed exhaust ports to collect/vent the fine dust more than you need to keep your floor clean.

Clip a magnet to your hat/shirt and grind for a day... You'll see what I am talking about.
Click to expand...
 
Best way is to buy one direct from your grinder's maker. Barring that, build one using sheet metal.
 
Or wood that is lined with sheet metal. My Grizz was easy, some grinders are more difficult than others. Keeping it simple for belt changes is tricky.


 
Thank you. I wonder if there's a radius that dust is airborne and then settles. I don't think I'd want to put in a system like that. I mostly want to keep dust out of the non-knife part of the garage. I've also toyed with the idea of some type of modular curtain or wall that encapsulates the grinder area. Maybe a welding curtain?
 
You can isolate your grinding area with doors or segmented curtains. Just make sure you wear a respirator... full face(or with goggles) if the area is tight. I would want an positive pressure mask in a closed room.
 
Thanks Rick. I'll look into curtains. I have a half mask respirator but will also up my game here.
 
Rick's right, the fine dust is the most dangerous, and the most expensive to capture.

My interest in dust collection for the metal area began with a few decorative magnets the wife gave me for my office, which is 20 or more feet from where we do the grinding. We do far more wood working in the shop than metal working. Lots of days the grinders aren't even used. After less than a year in my office there was a dark fuzzy spot of very fine steel dust on the front of each magnet...so fine metal dust will travel very far indeed.

The shop vac with the dust deputy is adequate for small tools like an angle grinder. The ash vacuum hose we are using to connect the cyclone to the grinders is about 1 1/4" ID, if I was going to use the system with anything stationary I would use 2" ID duct or smooth flex hose to minimize friction.

But seriously, for a grinder like a 2X72, 6X48, etc., you need a LOT more airflow to get the fine dust than you can get from a shop vac. The flow range recommended for sander/grinders in that size range varies from about 800 CFM (OSHA) to about 1000 CFM for European authorities. So my target is 1000 CFM in a 6" duct, which hits the 5,000 feet per minute air speed it takes to move steel and abrasive dust. It takes at least a 2 Hp dust collector with a short duct run to do that. Our hoods are designed to capture the air close to the point of grinding, which means taking the sparks too. Spark traps can be almost as expensive as the dust collector. And then you'll need flame retardant HEPA filters if you are returning the air to the shop. There's probably about $3,000 invested in the dust collection system on the Bader B3.

For a one person shop the really good powered respirators no longer look so expensive by comparison
 
Great post. How long does the fine stuff remain airborne? Of course I'm concerned for my health, but more so for my family who uses the garage (although not when I'm actively making knives). I want a way to isolate the mess to my 1/3 of the garage. Is it just a simple matter of cleanup after every session? Thanks again.

Mahoney said:
Rick's right, the fine dust is the most dangerous, and the most expensive to capture.

My interest in dust collection for the metal area began with a few decorative magnets the wife gave me for my office, which is 20 or more feet from where we do the grinding. We do far more wood working in the shop than metal working. Lots of days the grinders aren't even used. After less than a year in my office there was a dark fuzzy spot of very fine steel dust on the front of each magnet...so fine metal dust will travel very far indeed.

The shop vac with the dust deputy is adequate for small tools like an angle grinder. The ash vacuum hose we are using to connect the cyclone to the grinders is about 1 1/4" ID, if I was going to use the system with anything stationary I would use 2" ID duct or smooth flex hose to minimize friction.

But seriously, for a grinder like a 2X72, 6X48, etc., you need a LOT more airflow to get the fine dust than you can get from a shop vac. The flow range recommended for sander/grinders in that size range varies from about 800 CFM (OSHA) to about 1000 CFM for European authorities. So my target is 1000 CFM in a 6" duct, which hits the 5,000 feet per minute air speed it takes to move steel and abrasive dust. It takes at least a 2 Hp dust collector with a short duct run to do that. Our hoods are designed to capture the air close to the point of grinding, which means taking the sparks too. Spark traps can be almost as expensive as the dust collector. And then you'll need flame retardant HEPA filters if you are returning the air to the shop. There's probably about $3,000 invested in the dust collection system on the Bader B3.

For a one person shop the really good powered respirators no longer look so expensive by comparison
Click to expand...
 
How long the fine dust remains airborne isn't really very important, because once it settles any movement in the shop will stir it up again. Fine dust in the shop is a bit like glitter in a rug, it's really hard to get rid of it all. You can design the shop for ease of clean-up: smooth surfaces, no ledges, nooks, crannies, overhead pipes, etc. Using a vacuum or sweeping compound or microfiber duster will help trap the fine dust that's still settled. Dylos sells fairly inexpensive particle meters. They won't tell you if your air is OSHA compliant, to figure that out you need to know how big your dust is and what it weighs. But a particle meter is a useful tool to see how long the hang time of the dust is, whether or not the latest try at dust collection is helping, how much worse the air in the shop is compared to the house or outside, how much dust gets stirred up when you walk through the shop, and so on
 
Rick Marchand said:
I use a plastic deputy for my wood/leather sander only. It works great. I think the steel one is a great idea, too... but I'm already set up with a system that does what I need it to do.

The one thing I will continue to mention in these threads is the need to address the dust you don't see. I found that the true danger is the fine dust that gets caught up in the air currents produced by the grinder, itself. That stuff does not go into a bucket or funnel under the contact wheel/platen. It gets spit back up and hangs in the air. IMO, you need a shrouded grinder with appropriately placed exhaust ports to collect/vent the fine dust more than you need to keep your floor clean.

Clip a magnet to your hat/shirt and grind for a day... You'll see what I am talking about.
Click to expand...


I hung a 20 x 20 " box fan right over my grinder and have a 20 x 20 filter on it . It needs to be replace often as it catches the dust your are referring to Rick .
 
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