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ontario RAT-7 D2 Steel vs. swamp rat
- Thread starter thedawn
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The Ontario vs Swamp Rat was discussed before, not too long ago someone have the link?
this is akin to going to a Glock site and asking if Colt is better.
apples and oranges
this is akin to going to a Glock site and asking if Colt is better.
apples and oranges
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2001
- Messages
- 13,564
The Ontario vs Swamp Rat was discussed before, not too long ago someone have the link?
this is akin to going to a Glock site and asking if Colt is better.
i understand, but i just want to know the differences,if u think the swamp is better, i'd like to here it.
the glock is great, the colt also, but hey, i'm an israeli, got the great jericho and the amazing desert eagle...
on_the_edge
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"You label me, I'll label you" I enjoy feeding the animals.
Trolls are people too.
I saw it was brought up in the General Knife Discussion, lets see what happens there.
as far as I've been able to track, this fella isnt a troll, just brand new to the knife world and net etiquette. Its not cool to label a person a troll till you see if the intent is bad or not. thedawn, I see you've been thrown a wide range of knives to choose from: The Ontario TAK's are decent for the price but very use sensitive, not choppers and the QC isnt 100%. The SOG line is decent as well, the steel isnt all that great, and the handles are rough but they do serve a purpose to those who require a knife that is "good enough" for the job. Ranger knives are huge bang for your buck, hard to beat, and the Swamps biggest competitor imho.
Desert Eagle? Again very user specific. HUGE honkin firearm, definitly not a defensive firearm, all offensive. I prefer to defend myself, I dont really intend to go on the offensive. The Desert Eagle is just too big and showy for me, I prefer to be a bit less obtrusive. Now a Mini DE would be right along what I'm talking about!
Gravelface
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My E Y E S !! !!!
on_the_edge
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Its not cool to label a person a troll till you see if the intent is bad or not.
I definitely understand what you are saying. All I'm really saying is that one should recognize the possibilities here before the pot gets all stirred up for nothing. Some people will not recognize what is going on until well after the pot is stirred.
He asked a question and you pointed him in the direction of an answer. As I see it, he then blew off your response and basically said, "no, sorry, I don't care about that answer, or it doesn't answer my question, so now I want YOU to answer it." I might be wrong, but I am calling it as I see it. If I am proven wrong in the end, then I am also sorry for getting on it early. If I prove to be right, then it will be too bad that many will have wasted their time re-hashing something that, as you have already pointed out, has been discussed elsewhere.
Cutshaw
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- 7,274
He is new here. Though we work hard to not do anything in these subforums that looks like bashing of other manufacturers, that's up to us in our responses: so far, his questions were civil. I think "troll" is a bit premature.
thedawn: Welcome to the forums. BTW - Israeli? Jericho? Don't you mean Italian and Tanfoglio??
(Just ribbing you...)
EAA (American) er... OK, OK... Tanfoglio (Italian) 10mm.
thedawn: Welcome to the forums. BTW - Israeli? Jericho? Don't you mean Italian and Tanfoglio??
(Just ribbing you...)EAA (American) er... OK, OK... Tanfoglio (Italian) 10mm.
Guys, Ur getting to trouble about nothing, first of all, my reply about the gun was pointing the glock and colt issue, the Jericho is a great defender and the desert eagle is a beauty, nothing more. As far the knife r going, I'm from Israel we only have one Israeli made knife, the dustar which is a great knife but expensive for me. I know for sure that the sr is better then the Ontario, I want to know in what, all my life I had knives, but not quality, few years ago I have been in the state and bought a buck 119, nice knife, it fell from my hand on a concrete and the tip was broken, then I realize that I need a stronger knife, sure I would like a swamp rat, but its off my budget, you'll have to understand that if I order a knife from the internet that cost 100$ I pay extra 100$ on taxes ,costume and comition for the credit card company which brings me to a 200$and that is a lot of money for me, if I buy a swamp rat for 178$ I'll pay eventually almost 300$, one day I will have a swamp rat of my own, but until that day, I'm trying to find the closest....I hope that this is make my case clear, hope no one got offence by me
Eric Isaacson
Pirate
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- Dec 19, 1999
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- 12,547
TheDawn
Welcome to the Swamp Rat Forum, I'm glad that you stopped by.
I can't tell you much about the Rat7 in D2 as I've never owned one, I can however tell you a lot about SR101, D2 and the knives we have made in this size range.
Swamp Rat has used SR101 since we began offering knives in 2002. SR101 is a modified 52100 tool steel, with our propreitary heat treat. It offers durability, edge retention, and lateral strength to name a few of it's attributes. D2 has also been used by Swamp Rat, we chose not to use D2 in anything over 4.5" in blade length because D2 does not offer the lateral strength we expect in a knife that size. We feel D2 is a great steel for a small knife because of it's great edge holding abilities.
If I'm correct the RAT7 is a knife with a blade length of 6.5". We currently offer the M6 that has a 6" blade length and in the past have offered the Ratweiler and Camp Tramp that have had 7.5" blade lengths. These knives are made of SR101 with a differential temper. Some pics of some of our tests are shown below. I would suggest checking out the RAT7 in D2 to see if it will offer comparable performance.
Concrete Block Chop
Here are some pictures of the Concrete Block Chop we performed live at Blade Show. The first one is of the Battle Rat slicing paper before the Block Chop. This is to prove this is a sharp knife, we wanted to cut the block not smash it. A hammer can destroy a concrete block but not cut into, we cut into and through it.
This next pic is an impact shot. Check out the concrete shooting off the block. These were high impact chops, not (as Jerry said) "little, protective girly chops" To note, when chopping through the block the energy was all focused on one section of the blade. It was NOT spread over the entire blade.
Here is an action photo. See if you can find another manufacturer who trusts their blades enough to do this at a show.
And here is the Edge after the chopping was done, no damage, no chips, no cracks only dull.
Just to let you all know, I brought this blade home and sharpened it up, no problems(more on this later). So if you ever decide to cut through a concrete wall you can use the Battle Rat and resharpen it yourself.
While this knife was dull I've actually used knives that were duller. I wouldn't expect it to be sharp, it just chopped through a concrete block. However, one thing to note is that John Novak(Nimrod) actually was able to slice cardboard after this test was performed. Other manufacturers knives would have crumbled with this test.
I was able to resharpen the edge with a loaded strop and my Sharpmaker, I spent approx 20 minutes resharpening it. Any good quality sharpener would have done the trick. I wanted to prove that I was able to resharpen the edge without having to send it in, or go out and buy an expensive sharpener.
This test really proves several things.
1) Incidental contacts with stone, concrete, rock while using a Rat isn't going to cause any problems and you will be able to resharpen the blade yourself.
2) The Rat won't chip out when using it on bone or other hard material, even with hard impacts.
3) If you lose your jackhammer and you want to do some remodeling....
Seriously, this was the most incredible thing I've ever seen a knife do. The impacts were full impacts, I'm glad I had safety glasses on because concrete was flying everywhere.
Another point to make about this is that not only weren't there any rolls on the edge there weren't any chips taken out. This is significant, because a chipped blade affects more than just the chip. Other sections around the chip can be affected by microfractures.
Also, if you do have contacts with stone, concrete, etc while chopping you don't need to send it back to have the damage ground out. You can do it yourself.
Welcome to the Swamp Rat Forum, I'm glad that you stopped by.
I can't tell you much about the Rat7 in D2 as I've never owned one, I can however tell you a lot about SR101, D2 and the knives we have made in this size range.
Swamp Rat has used SR101 since we began offering knives in 2002. SR101 is a modified 52100 tool steel, with our propreitary heat treat. It offers durability, edge retention, and lateral strength to name a few of it's attributes. D2 has also been used by Swamp Rat, we chose not to use D2 in anything over 4.5" in blade length because D2 does not offer the lateral strength we expect in a knife that size. We feel D2 is a great steel for a small knife because of it's great edge holding abilities.
If I'm correct the RAT7 is a knife with a blade length of 6.5". We currently offer the M6 that has a 6" blade length and in the past have offered the Ratweiler and Camp Tramp that have had 7.5" blade lengths. These knives are made of SR101 with a differential temper. Some pics of some of our tests are shown below. I would suggest checking out the RAT7 in D2 to see if it will offer comparable performance.
Concrete Block Chop
Here are some pictures of the Concrete Block Chop we performed live at Blade Show. The first one is of the Battle Rat slicing paper before the Block Chop. This is to prove this is a sharp knife, we wanted to cut the block not smash it. A hammer can destroy a concrete block but not cut into, we cut into and through it.
This next pic is an impact shot. Check out the concrete shooting off the block. These were high impact chops, not (as Jerry said) "little, protective girly chops" To note, when chopping through the block the energy was all focused on one section of the blade. It was NOT spread over the entire blade.
Here is an action photo. See if you can find another manufacturer who trusts their blades enough to do this at a show.
And here is the Edge after the chopping was done, no damage, no chips, no cracks only dull.
Just to let you all know, I brought this blade home and sharpened it up, no problems(more on this later). So if you ever decide to cut through a concrete wall you can use the Battle Rat and resharpen it yourself.
While this knife was dull I've actually used knives that were duller. I wouldn't expect it to be sharp, it just chopped through a concrete block. However, one thing to note is that John Novak(Nimrod) actually was able to slice cardboard after this test was performed. Other manufacturers knives would have crumbled with this test.
I was able to resharpen the edge with a loaded strop and my Sharpmaker, I spent approx 20 minutes resharpening it. Any good quality sharpener would have done the trick. I wanted to prove that I was able to resharpen the edge without having to send it in, or go out and buy an expensive sharpener.
This test really proves several things.
1) Incidental contacts with stone, concrete, rock while using a Rat isn't going to cause any problems and you will be able to resharpen the blade yourself.
2) The Rat won't chip out when using it on bone or other hard material, even with hard impacts.
3) If you lose your jackhammer and you want to do some remodeling....
Seriously, this was the most incredible thing I've ever seen a knife do. The impacts were full impacts, I'm glad I had safety glasses on because concrete was flying everywhere.
Another point to make about this is that not only weren't there any rolls on the edge there weren't any chips taken out. This is significant, because a chipped blade affects more than just the chip. Other sections around the chip can be affected by microfractures.
Also, if you do have contacts with stone, concrete, etc while chopping you don't need to send it back to have the damage ground out. You can do it yourself.
Eric Isaacson
Pirate
- Joined
- Dec 19, 1999
- Messages
- 12,547
Additional test results
Flexibility
The Battle Rat has been bent to 45 Degrees and returned to true. The Shop is currently doing some more testing to determine a number that we can consistently reach without the blade taking a Set. We believe this number will be significant, but we'll will post more on it later.
The testing that has been done so far indicates the Battle Rat can reach the 80 degree region without breaking (see photo)
The Camp Tramp and Battle Rat blades are Differentially Treated and the Edge has a RC of 60. More information on the Differential Treatment will soon be posted on these forums and once people see it everyone will want one of these knives. It is incredible what is being done with these Production knives that you can buy for $128 and $148. Knives with similar abilities and Differential Treat commonly sell for thousands. (to be honest they probably don't perform as well as these)
The Video we had at Blade showed some of the following.
Pounding the tip into angle iron, without any tip damage or breakage.
Flexing the blade to upwards of 90 degrees without breaking it.
Chopping through a concrete block without chipping, rolling or breaking out the edge. The blade was only dulled. To note, when chopping through the block the energy was all focused on one section of the blade. It was NOT spread over the entire blade.
The blade was placed into the hitch of a 1978 F150 and the tang was used as a jack support to jack the truck up. The tang and blade remained straight.
These knives have shown extreme durability and strength. I can't wait until some of you guys get your hands on them and see what they can do.
The next pic is to show the extreme angle at which the blade can be bent without breaking it.
Flexibility
The Battle Rat has been bent to 45 Degrees and returned to true. The Shop is currently doing some more testing to determine a number that we can consistently reach without the blade taking a Set. We believe this number will be significant, but we'll will post more on it later.
The testing that has been done so far indicates the Battle Rat can reach the 80 degree region without breaking (see photo)
The Camp Tramp and Battle Rat blades are Differentially Treated and the Edge has a RC of 60. More information on the Differential Treatment will soon be posted on these forums and once people see it everyone will want one of these knives. It is incredible what is being done with these Production knives that you can buy for $128 and $148. Knives with similar abilities and Differential Treat commonly sell for thousands. (to be honest they probably don't perform as well as these)
The Video we had at Blade showed some of the following.
Pounding the tip into angle iron, without any tip damage or breakage.
Flexing the blade to upwards of 90 degrees without breaking it.
Chopping through a concrete block without chipping, rolling or breaking out the edge. The blade was only dulled. To note, when chopping through the block the energy was all focused on one section of the blade. It was NOT spread over the entire blade.
The blade was placed into the hitch of a 1978 F150 and the tang was used as a jack support to jack the truck up. The tang and blade remained straight.
These knives have shown extreme durability and strength. I can't wait until some of you guys get your hands on them and see what they can do.
The next pic is to show the extreme angle at which the blade can be bent without breaking it.
Gravelface
Gold Member
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2005
- Messages
- 11,290
I love this story! These pictures made me buy my first Rat!!!!
Eric,
Your commentary referred to being able to buy these knives at $128 and $148. I know they are no longer for sale. Will there be something similar available at the company store in the near future? I have a scrapper 6 and I am looking for something longer than the M6. The Camp Tramp looks perfect, but I found
Swamp Rat too late. I think I could have bought one at Blade West, but I bought the S6 instead. Also got a Howling Rat. If I had understood Swamp Rat then I think I might have bought the Ratweiller.
Ron Athay
Your commentary referred to being able to buy these knives at $128 and $148. I know they are no longer for sale. Will there be something similar available at the company store in the near future? I have a scrapper 6 and I am looking for something longer than the M6. The Camp Tramp looks perfect, but I found
Swamp Rat too late. I think I could have bought one at Blade West, but I bought the S6 instead. Also got a Howling Rat. If I had understood Swamp Rat then I think I might have bought the Ratweiller.
Ron Athay
Cutshaw
Moderator
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- Aug 15, 2004
- Messages
- 7,274
I'm not Eric, nor do I play him on TV, but I'll bet you'll find something soon.
Just be patient, it might take several weeks to a few months, but I bet you'll get something in the size you're looking for before too long.
That Howling Rat is great, huh?
Just be patient, it might take several weeks to a few months, but I bet you'll get something in the size you're looking for before too long.
That Howling Rat is great, huh?
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2005
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- 835
I'm looking for a RatMastiff Chopper
15 1/4 inches of Chopping Cheese
15 1/4 inches of Chopping Cheese
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- Feb 17, 2006
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- 5,822
me too! I'l buy another and another ..love them rats:thumbup: