Opinions on Choil Notches

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me2

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Oct 11, 2003
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What is the opinion of people here on the pros/cons of choil notches (small notch at the base of the edge, where the grind begins)? I would like to put them in some of my kitchen knives to make the knives easier to sharpen on my water stone. However, if many people feel they are a detriment to performance, I'll just have to look into yet another stone. My wife will be thrilled. As it is, the edge at the base kinda scrapes the corners off my stone and makes a dish there very quickly, which has to be lapped off, and so on and so on. I know from his first book that Ed Fowler frowns on them, saying they will hang up when cutting. However, Gollnick likes them, as they make for easier sharpening by eliminating a hard to reach place. I dont recall any hangups, but I dont remember how many knives I've had with them.
 
The real advantage to them is that it allows you to choke up on the knife right up to the edge and gives you more control in fine cutting. Everyone has personal preference, but I like them
 
The ones I'm referring to are small, about 1/8" diameter, and are located right where the sharpened edge meets the plunge grind for the primary bevel. Sometimes that area can be a little hard to reach, for not much advantage, especially if the radius of the plunge grind is large. As I recall, I dont think I've ever owned or used a knife with the large one like you reference. You're talking about the ones like on a Swamp Rat or Scrapyard knife, right?
 
me2 said:
The ones I'm referring to are small, about 1/8" diameter, and are located right where the sharpened edge meets the plunge grind for the primary bevel. Sometimes that area can be a little hard to reach, for not much advantage, especially if the radius of the plunge grind is large. As I recall, I dont think I've ever owned or used a knife with the large one like you reference. You're talking about the ones like on a Swamp Rat or Scrapyard knife, right?
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I'll speak for him and say yes. Many Spyderco's have large choils for "choking up" on the knife. Many hunting/skinning knives also

Small choils like you speak of (according to my research) are put on the knife to prevent scratching of the handle during sharpening.

Regards
 
I find that blades without a sharpening choil are difficult to sharpen optimally in the region of the edge near the ricasso. The edge area nearest the ricasso is simply too thick. The edge of the stone rides on this thick portion, making it difficult to sharpen the final 3/8" area of the edge near the ricasso.

All my most recent folders (Spydercos) exhibited this problem. All were modified to add sharpening choils, using a light touch with a Dremel cutoff wheel. The cut is quite shallow and narrow, about 3/32" width.

The result is that the full edge is 3/32" shorter, but allows optimal sharpening along the full edge.

Hope this helps!
 
Not only can the edge be sharpened it's full length when it has a choil (large or small) the blade does not become a weird shape when it has been sharpened a few time, as it will if it has no choil. I have regretted every blade I ever designed if it had no choil.
 
I have a knife with both. The small choil does hang up on loose or fibrous materials, like cutting shrink wrap. I modified the way I cut that, from large slashes to controlled slices, which worked. Now I just pull until it separates - it rarely needs precise cutting anyway. As for rope, cordage, plastic packing straps or ty-raps, I have the drop point under them to lever and slice up. I have no reason to insert the blade that far. As for the sharpening choil hanging up, those who've commented on it probably don't need to use the large uncontrolled slashing motions that cause the problem.

The finger choil can be very helpful choking up on the blade for fine cutting, especially when using the last 1/4" of the tip - but you have to keep it sharp, and tips dull quickly in EDC - more so than the base. I've never had difficulty sharpening close to the choil with crock sticks or Spyderco stones, and this area really doesn't get used much by me, so I'm not sure why the effort.

As for the shorter edge length, most users never slice with the full edge anyway, unless you're using a Wharncliffe, so the imputed disadvantage isn't really there. Whether the edge is 3 1/2" or 4", it's the total length that is measured, at least according to the police, and the various knife organisations support that. Choils don't make a long blade legal.

I have experienced that an edge ground right through the finger choil is really user unfriendly. Adding the sharpening notch is mandatory in that case. That knife is gone.
 
tirod3 said:
I have a knife with both. The small choil does hang up on loose or fibrous materials, like cutting shrink wrap. I modified the way I cut that, from large slashes to controlled slices, which worked.
Click to expand...

On some of my knives where I had the problem you speak of, I rounded the blade next to the choil somewhat using a Sharpmaker rod. They don't get caught as easily now on the material I'm cutting.

Regards
 
I like the large finger choils, and a sharpening choil/notch sucks. I've not bought a knife or 2 just because of the darn notch/choil.
 
If I had a dollar for every time I have had a sharpening choil hang up while cutting thin material, I could buy a new Sebenza. Yes, I have had to use a Dremel with a cut-off wheel to reprofile a blade or two next to the ricasso in the past, but that seemed a small price to pay when I was cutting a lot of plastic sheeting. Now I use a reverse-s blade for that type of cut, so I am less fanatic about avoiding choils.
 
fedaykincmndr said:
I think they're perfect for fine work and infinitely useful. My $.02
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Are you talking about the "finger choil" which allows you to choke up on the blade, or the "sharpening choil" which allows you to sharpen the edge all the way to the ricasso without rounding off the corner of your stone? Personally, I don't do much fine work with the quarter inch of the edge closest to the ricasso ;)
 
Ok, here is a picture of what I'm talking about, just in case it is confusing. The link is for a Cold Steel Voyager, with the "sharpening notch" just before the edge starts. I suppose the problem is the funny shape in the choil region from sharpening on a belt sander, so, perhaps I'll use said sander to fix the problem on a couple and add a notch on a couple and see what happens. I'll be adding the notch using a chainsaw sharpening bit on a dremel. I'll be adding the notch to try to save the corners of my stone, which, in the case of my kitchen knives, is worth more than the knives.

Edited: forgot the link. http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/coldsteel/images/29LCxyz.jpg
 
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