OT: Gun guys...can't afford, don't need, won't be able to hunt with..
- Thread starter Kismet
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namaarie said:I can't imagine the M-14 deals a swift death to a polar bear. 5.56 (I may be wrong) doesn't seem big enough for such a big, tough animal. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a bigger caliber would be better.
Luckily, I live in Iowa. Not too many polar bears 'round here!
Nam
Another trick is to build basically a huge ice wall, and make some noise, (Polar Bears are very curious critters) When the bear gets close enough, they pop up and put five rounds or so into its skull.
I dunno...this Chechako would still be more comfortable with a .375....
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There are lots of rifles I'd be okay with for engaging dangerous game at a distance. .375 is probably just dandy for lions on the plains.
Up close, I'd like something that starts with ".4", thanks very much. Same deal with large bears...Just because something has been killed with a certain tool, does not automatically make that tool the best one for the job. I don't
currently own any pack of half-wild dogs to keep angry bears off my shiverin' white tush, either...
John
Up close, I'd like something that starts with ".4", thanks very much. Same deal with large bears...Just because something has been killed with a certain tool, does not automatically make that tool the best one for the job. I don't
currently own any pack of half-wild dogs to keep angry bears off my shiverin' white tush, either...
John
I've read a lot of African stuff and many feel the 375 is the greatest of all lion medicine.
I kinda share in your paranoia, though, John. I think a 416 would do just fine.
Once things go wrong and the animal is charging you, idea's of 'good' change.
munk
I kinda share in your paranoia, though, John. I think a 416 would do just fine.
Once things go wrong and the animal is charging you, idea's of 'good' change.
munk
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This wouldn't help with the charging polar bear, but it would help make a polar bear angry (and eventually dead)~ I read where the eskimo would take a piece of baleen, sharpen both ends, bend it into a hoop or knot shape, and encapsulate it with meat. The bear would gulp down the meat and baleen, the meat would digest and the baleen would spring open and perforate the critters guts. They would then follow it until it died of internal bleeding. I'm glad I'm not a polar bear or an eskimo a hundred years ago. Could you imagine hangin' out in your igloo, getting jiggy with your momma, when out of the blue a a 1000lb bear pulls off the top of your home. "Hmmmmmmmm, wonder what's in the fridge tonight?" Igloo + eskimos = Polar bear Happy Meal.
Where was I going with all this? I think I need another beer
Where was I going with all this? I think I need another beer
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Here's my problem with the 4-somethings Vs. the 375-
My friend gets the biggest, baddest a$$ bear stompin' medicine he can find which was a .458 I happened to have my humble lil ole .308 at the time of sight in.
Friend goes to scope in .458...KABOOM!! "ouch..damn that hurt...not even on the paper yet....KABOOM!!...sumb!tch did that hurt! at least I'm on the paper...KABOOM!!! FREAKIN" DAMN GUN!! I THINK I BROKE MY DANG SHOULDER!! WHERE"D I HIT? I only missed the bullseye by nine inches? screw it, close enough!
While Mikey plinks away with his humble .308 going through umpteen rounds of ammunition, getting more accurate, having alot of fun, and improving his skills. Now, even CONSIDERING the relatively wimpy .308, do you think the gent with the .458 is really necessarily better off?
Of course, it's a given that we all know to sight in our guns correctly, and we're all manly and tough, and can handle a 458 for a couple shots, right?
my underlying belief is this: when you get into the serious captain kicka$$ calibers, your ammo gets unbelievably expensive, and you just can't take it out to work with it, and 99.9% of the time, you develop an acute paranoia of the particular weapon.
the humble .375, has enough horsepower to do the job, has ammo available in most department stores, and doesn't beat you to death when you practice with it, thusly increasing ones accuracy, and thereby increasing ones chance of getting a medium sized chunk of lead in the vital area rather than a nuclear warhead sized chunk of lead in it's front paw.
Translation: I'm way too much of a wimp to shoot anything bigger than .375...
If I ever prove myself to be wrong, I'll post pictures of my tattered, torn, beaten body so you can have bragging rights. Even if I have to return from the grave to do it. (I can already hear my wife: "You return from the dead and the first thing you do is log onto those stupid Blade Forums? why am I not surprised?!"
My friend gets the biggest, baddest a$$ bear stompin' medicine he can find which was a .458 I happened to have my humble lil ole .308 at the time of sight in.
Friend goes to scope in .458...KABOOM!! "ouch..damn that hurt...not even on the paper yet....KABOOM!!...sumb!tch did that hurt! at least I'm on the paper...KABOOM!!! FREAKIN" DAMN GUN!! I THINK I BROKE MY DANG SHOULDER!! WHERE"D I HIT? I only missed the bullseye by nine inches? screw it, close enough!
While Mikey plinks away with his humble .308 going through umpteen rounds of ammunition, getting more accurate, having alot of fun, and improving his skills. Now, even CONSIDERING the relatively wimpy .308, do you think the gent with the .458 is really necessarily better off?
Of course, it's a given that we all know to sight in our guns correctly, and we're all manly and tough, and can handle a 458 for a couple shots, right?
my underlying belief is this: when you get into the serious captain kicka$$ calibers, your ammo gets unbelievably expensive, and you just can't take it out to work with it, and 99.9% of the time, you develop an acute paranoia of the particular weapon.
the humble .375, has enough horsepower to do the job, has ammo available in most department stores, and doesn't beat you to death when you practice with it, thusly increasing ones accuracy, and thereby increasing ones chance of getting a medium sized chunk of lead in the vital area rather than a nuclear warhead sized chunk of lead in it's front paw.
Translation: I'm way too much of a wimp to shoot anything bigger than .375...
If I ever prove myself to be wrong, I'll post pictures of my tattered, torn, beaten body so you can have bragging rights. Even if I have to return from the grave to do it. (I can already hear my wife: "You return from the dead and the first thing you do is log onto those stupid Blade Forums? why am I not surprised?!"
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Heh. Bears seem to need less "medicine" than a lot of African dangerous game. A friend of mine who had been stationed in Alaska claimed he'd seen a lot of .338's while stationed there. I believe I'd get a good .35 Whelen and call it good, if hunting. If for self-defense, I'd feel fine with my 12 gauge loaded with Brennekes.
John
John
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Spectre, I was thinking exactly the same thing! A good medium power .35 cal can be shot without killing too bad on both ends. 12 guage is a fearsome beast with slugs ~If it needs to STOP now, at close range, it's hard to beat a .72 cal hole + and more than an ounce of lead!
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I once owned a double rifle in 35 Whelan. And an 03-A3 in Brown-Whelan. Loved both.
The Remington Safari grade 458 got sold with half a box of ammo. ( And I had a Juenke Muzzle brake installed before I fired shot # 1. )
I love the 300 H&H's long soft but firm shove, and have often wondered about the 375 H&H. Or the 9.3x62. I think I could handle a moderately handloaded 375. Then again the .308 I like, but the 30-06 gives me a headache from just one shot.
I think I'd like a 25-06 for long range, a 7x57 for larger stuff and a 35 Whelan/9.3x62/375H&H for the big gun.
The Remington Safari grade 458 got sold with half a box of ammo. ( And I had a Juenke Muzzle brake installed before I fired shot # 1. )
I love the 300 H&H's long soft but firm shove, and have often wondered about the 375 H&H. Or the 9.3x62. I think I could handle a moderately handloaded 375. Then again the .308 I like, but the 30-06 gives me a headache from just one shot.
I think I'd like a 25-06 for long range, a 7x57 for larger stuff and a 35 Whelan/9.3x62/375H&H for the big gun.
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Talk about different recoils...Something strange I've observed. I think I've seen more .338's than any other gun up here myself, but...I like shooting them less than the .375's. I know statistically the .338 is smaller, but it's like alot more of a sudden hard kick, whereas the .375 is more of a light shove, if that makes any sense.
I guess that's one thing that's great about all the different calibers out there. It seems there's something for everyone.
I guess that's one thing that's great about all the different calibers out there. It seems there's something for everyone.
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Yep, it's a 366 cal. When London was putting out 375's between the wars, Germany was selling the 9.3 with a slightly smaller bullet, but at about the same weight, and pretty close to the same muzzle energy.
IIRC, the 9.3 was as or more popular than the 375 in Africa because the mauser rifles were cheaper than the english guns ( often put together by the british on german actions ), and the 9.3 ammo was cheaper and as or more plentiful until after WW2 when the entire Continent's manufacturing base was in shambles.
IIRC, the 9.3 was as or more popular than the 375 in Africa because the mauser rifles were cheaper than the english guns ( often put together by the british on german actions ), and the 9.3 ammo was cheaper and as or more plentiful until after WW2 when the entire Continent's manufacturing base was in shambles.
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I know how to trap a polar bear
You dig a hole in the Ice
and ring it with green peas
take the snow from the hole and build a mound to hide behind
and when the bear comes to take a pea
you runaround and kick him in the Icehole
On a more adult note there is a new type of 12 guage ammo
http://www.polyshok.com/
That appears very interesting to an old bessie fan like myself
Not much you cant do close range with a shotgun
You dig a hole in the Ice
and ring it with green peas
take the snow from the hole and build a mound to hide behind
and when the bear comes to take a pea
you runaround and kick him in the Icehole
On a more adult note there is a new type of 12 guage ammo
http://www.polyshok.com/
That appears very interesting to an old bessie fan like myself
Not much you cant do close range with a shotgun
I own a 35 Whelen. It dropped an Elk with a single shot. He moved about 30 feet.
I've owned a 338 and a 375 Of the two, I miss the 375
The only reason I own a Whelen is because my friend needed money so I sold the 375 and bought his Whelen. (he used to build guns- Spectre knows him)
I like the Whelen. But I miss the 375. I'd like to own both, if truth be told.
But it's unlikely I'll go on safari. And in the meantime, if someone would chamber Smith's 460 round in a fast handling, light semi auto carbine with a ten round mag....
But I have a Russian SKS to buy. And after that, who knows?
One of these days I must replace the WWll khuk I know longer own.
And there's the Ruger 480 What a sweet round.
munk
I've owned a 338 and a 375 Of the two, I miss the 375
The only reason I own a Whelen is because my friend needed money so I sold the 375 and bought his Whelen. (he used to build guns- Spectre knows him)
I like the Whelen. But I miss the 375. I'd like to own both, if truth be told.
But it's unlikely I'll go on safari. And in the meantime, if someone would chamber Smith's 460 round in a fast handling, light semi auto carbine with a ten round mag....
But I have a Russian SKS to buy. And after that, who knows?
One of these days I must replace the WWll khuk I know longer own.
And there's the Ruger 480 What a sweet round.
munk
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I've got a .35 Remington I hunt deer with. I like it but I need to get my reloading crap back together cause the factory loads just don't knock them down like the handloads I used to use.
My dad has a 99 Savage in 358. He still has handloads for it and usually knocks them over with one shot.
My dad has a 99 Savage in 358. He still has handloads for it and usually knocks them over with one shot.
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9.3mm rifle calibers are, by all accounts, great rounds. 9.3x62 and x74mm have similar ballistics, which are a little more powerful than .35 Whelen. 9.3x64mm provides .375 H&H power in a standard-length action.
Munk, I don't have the funds now- and probably not in the near future- but if you ever need to get rid of that Whelen, I traded my Whelen to another mentor a year ago. I'd give your rifle a respectful home.
John
Munk, I don't have the funds now- and probably not in the near future- but if you ever need to get rid of that Whelen, I traded my Whelen to another mentor a year ago. I'd give your rifle a respectful home.
John
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Nice thing about the Europeans is they load the heaviest bullets flat out, and as the bullet weight drops, so does the muzzle energy.
If you look at the 9.3's for example, the energy levels for bullet weight would be as follows - just using the 35 calibers as an example:
300 grain - 358 Norma/375 H&H power levels - Bear
275 grain - 35 Whelan/350 Rem mag levels - Moose
250 grain - 358 Winchester levels - Elk
220 grain - 35 Remington levels - Deer
Makes a lot of sense to me. Over here you have to reload to get the same effect.
If you look at the 9.3's for example, the energy levels for bullet weight would be as follows - just using the 35 calibers as an example:
300 grain - 358 Norma/375 H&H power levels - Bear
275 grain - 35 Whelan/350 Rem mag levels - Moose
250 grain - 358 Winchester levels - Elk
220 grain - 35 Remington levels - Deer
Makes a lot of sense to me. Over here you have to reload to get the same effect.
Rusty, I'm a little confused by your list. The Whelen, for instance, when loaded with the heaviest bullets, exceeds the 350 mag by far. The little Rem mag does not have enough case cap, the bullet goes way down into the case, just to conform to OCL to work in the action. Even if the action was long enough, the case isn't big enough.
The 358 Norma is a great round, but does not quite equal the 375 in any loading. ( At least, I don't think it does, with a lap full of reloading manuals trying various big bores against one another.)
I think the Europeans do load heavy for calibre- like the 7x57 and the Swede 6.5 X 55
Always kinda wanted the 9.3 That was a cult calibre for some time.
Oh, btw, everybody; Rusty's one of those guys who if he had every gun he once owned, would have a premier collection. I know so many like him. It would only take a couple -three of these kind of fella's to open a museum.
munk
The 358 Norma is a great round, but does not quite equal the 375 in any loading. ( At least, I don't think it does, with a lap full of reloading manuals trying various big bores against one another.)
I think the Europeans do load heavy for calibre- like the 7x57 and the Swede 6.5 X 55
Always kinda wanted the 9.3 That was a cult calibre for some time.
Oh, btw, everybody; Rusty's one of those guys who if he had every gun he once owned, would have a premier collection. I know so many like him. It would only take a couple -three of these kind of fella's to open a museum.
munk