paper sharpening wheels - when your time is important to you

@Barmaley :

All the Paper Wheels i use originate from this US company: https://sharpeningmadeeasy.com/paper.htm
Best quality i have found so far.
Next to these i would recommend an angle guide, so you can measure edge angles before and after sharpening.
I've been using a Tormek WM200 Angle Master for years, but lately i'm thinking about a Vetako laser goniometer.
From what i hear from fellow sharpeners these have a better build quality compared to the ones made by CATRA.
I also use sharpies or magic markers (black/red/blue) and a quality pair of safety glasses.
 
@ZDHart : the various Paper Wheel manufacturers use different grit sizes on their Wheels, some use coarser grits, some finer.
Coarser grits you will obviously feel better through the wax, once this has distributed itself after a few sharpenings.
The right amount of wax depends on the operator; is he heavyhanded or the opposite, and does he use quicker passes or more slower ones.
Best to experiment a lot, and with both thicker and thinner knives.
Two things are important to remember: SiC grit is friable (in use the particles break down to smaller sizes) plus the layer of grit on the Wheel surface is only a few grains thick.
The more heavy sharpening/reprofiling you do the sooner you will have to regrit the surface of your grit Wheel with a fresh layer of SiC grit.
When and if that time comes i would recommend to use my 3-step method, in which you use 3 layers of glue instead of just 1 layer, like on factory gritted Paper Wheels.
 
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kwackster said:
@ZDHart : the various Paper Wheel manufacturers use different grit sizes on their Wheels, some use coarser grits, some finer.
Coarser grits you will obviously feel better through the wax, once this has distributed itself after a few sharpenings.
The right amount of wax depends on the operator; is he heavyhanded or the opposite, and does he use quicker passes or more slower ones.
Best to experiment a lot, and with both thicker and thinner knives.
Two things are important to remember: SiC grit is friable (in use the particles break down to smaller sizes) plus the layer of grit on the Wheel surface is only a few grains thick.
The more heavy sharpening/reprofiling you do the earlier you will have to regrit the surface of your grit Wheel with a fresh layer of SiC grit.
When and if that time comes i would recommend to use my 3-step method, in which you use 3 layers of glue instead of just 1 layer, like on factory gritted Paper Wheels.
Click to expand...
Is there a particular grinder and wheel set you use or would recommend for my Skinning Knife ?
 
B Beinglis23 : The machine i use is a Creusen DS7500TS slower speed grinder (1400-1700 rpm) together with various Paper Wheels originating from Sharpeningmadeeasy.com
Both are quality made products that i have been using for years.

IMO it's best to start with a good quality slower speed grinder & a standard set of Paper Wheels from the source i mentioned, and with a little practice you will be able to keep that skinning knife frighteningly sharp in no-time.
 
kwackster said:
B Beinglis23 : The machine i use is a Creusen DS7500TS slower speed grinder (1400-1700 rpm) together with various Paper Wheels originating from Sharpeningmadeeasy.com
Both are quality made products that i have been using for years.

IMO it's best to start with a good quality slower speed grinder & a standard set of Paper Wheels from the source i mentioned, and with a little practice you will be able to keep that skinning knife frighteningly sharp in no-time.
Click to expand...

Sound good, Sure I will try it
 
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I just wanted to thank everyone who contributed to this thread. There is SO MUCH great information here. It has me thinking about picking up the paper wheel system that was linked earlier and having a go at it.

I have a SharpMaker that I use for quick touch ups, and an Edge Pro Apex that does a fantastic job at setting bevels and getting my knives very sharp. However the EPA takes a while to get the edge where I want it. I think the paper wheels may just be what I’m looking for.
 
f1addict said:
I just wanted to thank everyone who contributed to this thread. There is SO MUCH great information here. It has me thinking about picking up the paper wheel system that was linked earlier and having a go at it.

I have a SharpMaker that I use for quick touch ups, and an Edge Pro Apex that does a fantastic job at setting bevels and getting my knives very sharp. However the EPA takes a while to get the edge where I want it. I think the paper wheels may just be what I’m looking for.
Click to expand...

Just note please, that the grinding paper wheel is good only for re-sharpening the existing edge, at the existing edge angle. Not possible to reprofile on them. If, for example, you want to regrind a knife from 20 to 15 dps, this strips the grit off the paper wheel and renders it unusable in 1-2 knives.
 
wootzblade said:
Just note please, that the grinding paper wheel is good only for re-sharpening the existing edge, at the existing edge angle. Not possible to reprofile on them. If, for example, you want to regrind a knife from 20 to 15 dps, this strips the grit off the paper wheel and renders it unusable in 1-2 knives.
Click to expand...

That’s good info, I didn’t realize that. Thank you!!

It looks like I have more reading to do...
 
That hasn't been my experience.
A light touch & letting the grit wheel do the work helps quite a bit to extend the service life of the SiC grit layer.
If you get to the point where a regrit would be advisable, use the 3-step glueing method for an even longer service life of that SiC grit layer.
 
kwackster said:
That hasn't been my experience.
A light touch & letting the grit wheel do the work helps quite a bit to extend the service life of the SiC grit layer.
If you get to the point where a regrit would be advisable, use the 3-step glueing method for an even longer service life of that SiC grit layer.
Click to expand...

I respect your opinion, kwackster. When setting my paper wheels, I followed your posts, and am grateful to you, they are of great help.
But since my setup I use the paper wheels only for honing, because by my experience, they are not the right tool for re-grinding a knife to a lower angle.

E.g. I wanted to grind a budget s/s knife from 20 to 12 degrees per side on a new paper wheel, but already at 15 dps lost the grit layer off it. It died on the 1st knife, you see.
 
wootzblade wootzblade : From where i stand i'm quite sure that many in the knife world are very happy that you chose to focus your engineer's mind onto the many aspects of knife sharpening, as well as to share your findings with the rest of us in easy to understand texts & video's.

Your experience with losing the grit layer so quickly makes me think of a bad glueing job from the manufacturer, as back in the day i reprofiled & sharpened many knives with my own factory spec grit Wheel.
Later i did quite a bit of experimenting with various types of glue & glueing methods, until i found the 3-step method i still use today.
It makes for a much stronger bond of the grit layer to the cardboard, and also of each grit particle to the glue, which together translates into a much improved service life of the grit Wheel.

Some time ago i did a regrit on my oldest grit Wheel, but instead of using the standard SiC grit i used ~170 grit diamond powder, also using the 3-step method (plus wax)
At the moment i'm still experimenting with it.

Now CBN powder would be the better choice for grinding (as you already found and published), but that abrasive is still rather expensive at the moment.
It might be an idea for a certain quality Paper Wheel manufacturer; an upgraded set of Paper Wheels, using CBN powder on the grit Wheel (using the 3-step glueing method), and diamond compound on the burr removal/polishing Wheel.
 
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K kreisler : Thank you for you last post, and I'd like to comment. Overgrinding in the middle of the blade is reality and sharpener's pain that must be discussed for a solution.
But, out of respect to this paper wheel thread, maybe you can start a new thread please and move your above post to there?
What you are talking about, deserves its own thread.
 
Hey all. I just started reading this thread last week. I've gotten through the first 32 pages, before I went out and got my wheels on Saturday at woodcraft. I started with all the junk kitchen knives, then went on to the good ones. They were pretty easy because of the straight edge. I've haven't started any of the hunting or pocket knives, because I wasn't sure about the belly and tip. I've read about taking the tip halfway across the wheel and then lifting it off. I haven't ready anything about if the hold angle changes for the belly or tip. For example on stones, you raise the handle increasing the angle as you get to the tip. Do you do the same on the wheels? Or is it one constant angle for the whole blade?
 
sackman said:
...For example on stones, you raise the handle increasing the angle as you get to the tip. Do you do the same on the wheels? Or is it one constant angle for the whole blade?
Click to expand...

I rotate the blade, following the shape of the belly toward the tip. (I never just lift or raise the handle).
 
cbwx34 said:
I rotate the blade, following the shape of the belly toward the tip. (I never just lift or raise the handle).
Click to expand...
Yes, I understand that you rotate the blade as you move up the belly toward the tip. My question was does the hold angle of the blade remain constant? Or, like on stones, do you increase the angle as you get toward the tip?
 
sackman said:
Yes, I understand that you rotate the blade as you move up the belly toward the tip. My question was does the hold angle of the blade remain constant? Or, like on stones, do you increase the angle as you get toward the tip?
Click to expand...
Hi
Its like sharpening on a tilted stone, you maintain angle by pivoting blade, no handle lifting stuff
But because its a wheel, the part of the wheel you touch determines the angle, hence the laser stuff

See bladeforums.com/threads/hack-to-get-consistent-angles-on-bench-grinder-wheel.1736042/#post-19850767

And see pics below, first stone then wheel

https://imgur.com/a/kIiMVWF
imgur.com/a/kIiMVWF
https://imgur.com/a/kIiMVWF
sharpening-maintainangle-pivotblade-tiltedstone.gif
on an inclined/tilted sharpening stone, pivot when you reach belly/tip so it sharpens at same angle as the rest of the blade
1SSJ9NW.gif



sharpening-maintainangle-lifthandle-levelstone.gif
when sharpening on a level stone, lift handle when you reach belly/tip so they get sharpened at same angle
ApnXiWJ.gif





https://imgur.com/a/U7bAbum
imgur.com/a/U7bAbum
https://imgur.com/a/U7bAbum
DJDr2GN.png

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8SrJhjm.png

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k3TUWX6.png
 
bucketstove said:
Hi
Its like sharpening on a tilted stone, you maintain angle by pivoting blade, no handle lifting stuff
But because its a wheel, the part of the wheel you touch determines the angle, hence the laser stuff

@buketstove

Thank you so much. Those diagrams were awesome, it totally answered my question. I was confused about lifting the handle when sharpening on a level stone, versus sharpening on a tilted stone, you don't lift the handle.


sharpening-maintainangle-lifthandle-levelstone.gif
when sharpening on a level stone, lift handle when you reach belly/tip so they get sharpened at same angle
Click to expand...
 
bucketstove said:
Hi
Its like sharpening on a tilted stone, you maintain angle by pivoting blade, no handle lifting stuff
But because its a wheel, the part of the wheel you touch determines the angle, hence the laser stuff

sharpening-maintainangle-lifthandle-levelstone.gif
when sharpening on a level stone, lift handle when you reach belly/tip so they get sharpened at same angle
Click to expand...

@buketstove

Thank you so much. Those diagrams were awesome, it totally answered my question. I was confused about lifting the handle when sharpening on a level stone, versus sharpening on a tilted stone, you don't lift the handle.
 
I have an old Jet 10” wet sharpener that I have had for many years and it is time to replace. I am wanting to get a paper wheel setup mainly for speed and it seems a very sharp edge after acquiring the skill to use it. I will need both the wheels and a dedicated bench polisher/buffer.

From reading A bit of this thread I see that some use the Razor Sharp Edgemaking wheel set. Some use the wheel sets from Grizzly. Is there a difference in quality that is worthy of the price difference?

Regarding the bench grinder/polisher. On this site, linked below, that sells the Razor Sharp Edgemaking they sell what looks like the Harbor Freight 6” buffer https://sharpeningmadeeasy.com/paper.htm. What is the best speed for paper wheels? Would a variable speed bench polisher be of any use. From what I read it is best to have 3000-3600. I would assume that 6” Central Machinery unit from Harbor Freight would have less rpm with 8” wheels.
 
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