Para-Military in CTS-204P

1SHOT1KILL said:
Any way you can test one alongside the Southard?
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Those results might be a bit skewed if Ankerson did because it'd be hard to normalize the results. The Southard has a 4MM thick blade with a high hollow grind and the PM2 has a 3.5MM thick blade with a FFG. I expect you'd see more variation based on the blade and grind instead of the steel in this situation. If I had to guess though, I'd favour the PM2 just because of the thinner stock.
 
1SHOT1KILL said:
Any way you can test one alongside the Southard?
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Don't own one and they are pretty thick behind the edge.

JNewell said:
Any preliminary thoughts compared to BU M390??? :cool:
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From my testing so far 204P seems to be slightly better than M390 at 61 RC, edge retention on rope.

420 cuts to 380... or about 10% or so.... So they are very close.
 
RevDevil said:
All I will say is that I'd love to have a slot in the collectors club unfortunately, information on it has been difficult to come by.
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Ask your dealer. Mine informed me a few years ago about which numbers were available (if you do all variants it is pretty expensive though). A call to Spyderco would probably work as well :D
 
Ankerson said:
Don't own one and they are pretty thick behind the edge.



From my testing so far 204P seems to be slightly better than M390 at 61 RC, edge retention on rope.

420 cuts to 380... or about 10% or so.... So they are very close.
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I am not sure if it is too much to ask, but I would also be interested to hear your thoughts as to which was easier to sharpen. M390 or the CTS-204P? In my experience, M390 has been very responsive and a joy to sharpen.

P.S. THanks for all the great test data.
 
Ankerson said:
Don't own one and they are pretty thick behind the edge.



From my testing so far 204P seems to be slightly better than M390 at 61 RC, edge retention on rope.

420 cuts to 380... or about 10% or so.... So they are very close.
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Interesting - since Carpenter is technically on Gen 2 PM processes and BU is on Gen 3???
 
JNewell said:
Interesting - since Carpenter is technically on Gen 2 PM processes and BU is on Gen 3???
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It won't make that much of a difference, and I don't know the hardness of 204P.

10% is VERY close in this type of testing.
 
Ankerson said:
It won't make that much of a difference, and I don't know the hardness of 204P.

10% is VERY close in this type of testing.
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It really is.

This sort of testing has a lot of variables in play, some you can control and some you can't. Even if you control all the variables you can, and even if you have years of experience, 10% is extremely close due to the nature of the testing method.
 
hayes31 said:
It really is.
This sort of testing has a lot of variables in play, some you can control and some you can't. Even if you control all the variables you can, and even if you have years of experience, 10% is extremely close due to the nature of the testing method.
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Even more, most likely it safe to say that at least 10% is uncertainty of measurement.
Also two knives were tested and compared. This is not the same as two steels were tested. There are variation in chemistry from melt to melt, as well as variation in heat-treatment between heat-treatment lots of the blades and from blade to blade withing the same lot. It will not surprise me if somebody would test about 50 production paras S30V, which were produced within few years period of time, which blades associated with different material heat numbers (melts) and of cause were heat-treat in different lots, the results will vary more that 10% within the same steel.
 
mr_anderson said:
They wouldn't be limited editions of everyone had them.
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I'm not so sure that the average knife enthusiast cares if they are limited editions or not. I like that they are different from the stock model, but I don't care that they are rare. I think a lot of enthusiasts would like for them to be more available so they wouldn't be so concerned about actually using the ones that they own. Right now if you for instance have a green one and like to use it, if you break it or lose it you will have a hard time replacing it. Other brands make some models with interesting steels but they produce enough of them that it is easier to justify owning one of them as a user.
 
bdmicarta said:
I'm not so sure that the average knife enthusiast cares if they are limited editions or not. I like that they are different from the stock model, but I don't care that they are rare. I think a lot of enthusiasts would like for them to be more available so they wouldn't be so concerned about actually using the ones that they own. Right now if you for instance have a green one and like to use it, if you break it or lose it you will have a hard time replacing it. Other brands make some models with interesting steels but they produce enough of them that it is easier to justify owning one of them as a user.
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This! I have always said that the "specialness" of my (fill in sprint here) will not diminish with additional runs because my knife will still be made of the same materials and will be the same design that attracted me to it in the first place.

I'd even venture to say that the persons most concerned about the "exclusivity" are the spreculators.
 
bdmicarta said:
I'm not so sure that the average knife enthusiast cares if they are limited editions or not. I like that they are different from the stock model, but I don't care that they are rare. I think a lot of enthusiasts would like for them to be more available so they wouldn't be so concerned about actually using the ones that they own. Right now if you for instance have a green one and like to use it, if you break it or lose it you will have a hard time replacing it. Other brands make some models with interesting steels but they produce enough of them that it is easier to justify owning one of them as a user.
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singularity35 said:
This! I have always said that the "specialness" of my (fill in sprint here) will not diminish with additional runs because my knife will still be made of the same materials and will be the same design that attracted me to it in the first place.

I'd even venture to say that the persons most concerned about the "exclusivity" are the spreculators.
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+1 and +1
 
bh49 said:
Even more, most likely it safe to say that at least 10% is uncertainty of measurement.
Also two knives were tested and compared. This is not the same as two steels were tested. There are variation in chemistry from melt to melt, as well as variation in heat-treatment between heat-treatment lots of the blades and from blade to blade withing the same lot. It will not surprise me if somebody would test about 50 production paras S30V, which were produced within few years period of time, which blades associated with different material heat numbers (melts) and of cause were heat-treat in different lots, the results will vary more that 10% within the same steel.
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Agreed on all points.

I think Ankerson has the right idea by putting them in general groups rather than ranking each individual steel against each other because of these inherent variations.
 
I really love this knife. The green G-10 is right up my alley and the CTS-204P blade looks like it's going to be a performer.
 
I remember before this knife went up for pre-order there were many who disliked the color choice.I bet you some of the folks wished they had chosen to pre-order.Green is my favorite color and that won't change.I much prefer forest green over smurf blue or anger orange.I wold like to see another 400 produced as I read some where this steel might/has been discontinued by Carpenter.Please advise?
 
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Carpenter has stated that CTS-204P has NOT been discontinued - which is good news, given the reports on its performance. :thumbup:
 
salmonkiller said:
I remember before this knife went up for pre-order there were many who disliked the color choice.I bet you some of the folks wished they had chosen to pre-order.Green is my favorite color and that won't change.I much prefer forest green over smurf blue or anger orange.I wold like to see another 400 produced as I read some where this steel might/has been discontinued by Carpenter.Please advise?
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http://www.spyderco.com/forums/show...TS-20CP&highlight=carpenter+204p+discontinued

Josh, I dug this up for you. Neither the 20CP nor the 204P will be canceled. They will make them available if knifemakers are interested.
 
I am glad to hear that A USA produced equivalent to Bohler M390 will continue to be available to knifemakers.This steel and M390 are leaps and bounds better than Spyderco's standard S30v.I hope to see more knives in this steel from Spyderco and other makers.Thanks for the heads up!
 
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