PayPal friends and family

[madcap_magician]

Wait, that really happened?

Damn, someone could probably write up a nice thesis on "Darwinian economics" - a fool and his money, and all that

I think it was a Night Sky Sebenza 21 advertised as being made from D2. It was an obvious fake, and I'm not a CRK person at all. Not sure if the guy posted asking about it after he bought it. It just grinds my gears that Facebookstagram is so full of people with so much money and basically zero ethics, knowledge, or common sense. Lots of them falling for dumb scams that are so obviously scams that it's impossible to believe anyone would actually bite. Like... really? Did you really think that generic Chinese e-commerce site that is also selling "Rolexes" and "Kate Spade bags" has actual Sebenzas for $129.99?

Another thing that has happened a couple times is people saying "Hey I just found this knife! What a lucky score! You can have it for $XX to your door!"

That happened enough that I started commenting that if anyone lost a knife, the best way to find it would be to jump on the Facebook Knife Sales and Trade page and look for the jerk who found it and is now trying to simultaneously identify it (because he knows nothing about knives) and flip it (because he has zero ethics).

 

[on_the_edge]

I think it was a Night Sky Sebenza 21 advertised as being made from D2. It was an obvious fake, and I'm not a CRK person at all. Not sure if the guy posted asking about it after he bought it. It just grinds my gears that Facebookstagram is so full of people with so much money and basically zero ethics, knowledge, or common sense. Lots of them falling for dumb scams that are so obviously scams that it's impossible to believe anyone would actually bite. Like... really? Did you really think that generic Chinese e-commerce site that is also selling "Rolexes" and "Kate Spade bags" has actual Sebenzas for $129.99?

Another thing that has happened a couple times is people saying "Hey I just found this knife! What a lucky score! You can have it for $XX to your door!"

That happened enough that I started commenting that if anyone lost a knife, the best way to find it would be to jump on the Facebook Knife Sales and Trade page and look for the jerk who found it and is now trying to simultaneously identify it (because he knows nothing about knives) and flip it (because he has zero ethics).

People hear, see, think, and feel what they want to, often times regardless of what everything around them is screaming. And if they ultimately fall victim to a scam? Well, frankly, I think that it is becoming en vogue these days to be a victim, for some folks anyway. All IMHO of course.

 

[CataD]

Not in how I use the terms. I wouldn't refer to the hundreds of members that take F&F as scammers, for whatever reason they don't see it as wrong-I disagree
but call it what you want. Rather than argue over the term, I will just restate it'
I believe if paid this seller would send the knife, but it is in the what if's I am not sure.
What if it got lost or stolen in transit
What if there was an unseen flaw
I don't know how he would handle it and using PP F&F he already has one instance of not being honest. Where exactly is the line drawn.
If I took a USPS money order I would still cover the buyer in all ways except fraud. Would this seller? Even if he did he still shouldn't have used F&F.
I do however think he would mail the knife. He is a minor rather than a major thief IMO

So, you're saying, that because he's just scamming PayPal out of their fees and not scamming another person, he's not a scammer? We clearly have different definitions of what a thief/scammer is...

 

[madcap_magician]

So, you're saying, that because he's just scamming PayPal out of their fees and not scamming another person, he's not a scammer? We clearly have different definitions of what a thief/scammer is...

As far as I can tell, if you are not a "Friend" or a "Family" member, then by golly, maybe I shouldn't use the "Friends and Family" option to send you money!

 

[Peter Hartwig]

So, you're saying, that because he's just scamming PayPal out of their fees and not scamming another person, he's not a scammer? We clearly have different definitions of what a thief/scammer is...

We agree on theft, not on scammer. IMO to be a scammer there is a set up-the scam. Theft is simply theft. I don't think this seller is setting the buyer up for a theft. He is stealing from PP(if he uses F&F for a sale), by not paying them the appropriate fees for their services. I can't actually say that this seller has ever stolen anything from PP though. He proposed using F&F since it served(or thought it would serve) his needs in this case, but for all I know every transaction he has completed could have been G&S.
A scammer is a thief. A thief is not necessarily a scammer
Hold a little old lady up and you are a thief
Trick her out of her life savings and you are a scammer

 

[CataD]

We agree on theft, not on scammer. IMO to be a scammer there is a set up-the scam. Theft is simply theft. I don't think this seller is setting the buyer up for a theft. He is stealing from PP(if he uses F&F for a sale), by not paying them the appropriate fees for their services. I can't actually say that this seller has ever stolen anything from PP though. He proposed using F&F since it served(or thought it would serve) his needs in this case, but for all I know every transaction he has completed could have been G&S.
A scammer is a thief. A thief is not necessarily a scammer
Hold a little old lady up and you are a thief
Trick her out of her life savings and you are a scammer

For some reason you insist that there's a difference. There is not:

scam·mer
/ˈskamər/
noun
INFORMAL
noun: scammer; plural noun: scammers

1. a person who commits fraud or participates in a dishonest scheme.
   "scammers are preying on people's good intentions"

 

[CataD]

As far as I can tell, if you are not a "Friend" or a "Family" member, then by golly, maybe I shouldn't use the "Friends and Family" option to send you money!

I'm not sure if we're in disagreement or not, LOL.. Just to clarify, I believe that F&F is to send $ to Friends and Family...

 

[benchwarmer380]

For some reason you insist that there's a difference. There is not:

scam·mer
/ˈskamər/
noun
INFORMAL
noun: scammer; plural noun: scammers

1. a person who commits fraud or participates in a dishonest scheme.
   "scammers are preying on people's good intentions"

The difference is semantical. A thief steals. A scammer uses a scheme to steal or defraud.

If I run into a convenience store and jack all the money in the cash register when it's opened, I would be a thief and not a scammer.
If I dressed as a money truck driver to fake a cash pick up and steal money from the safe/register by duping the employee, then I would be both a scammer and a thief.

 

[Peter Hartwig]

For some reason you insist that there's a difference. There is not:

scam·mer
/ˈskamər/
noun
INFORMAL
noun: scammer; plural noun: scammers

1. a person who commits fraud or participates in a dishonest scheme.
   "scammers are preying on people's good intentions"

Scammer is just a sub sector of thief-I am not saying necessarily any better than any other thief, except the violent

 

[Insipid Moniker]

As far as I can tell, if you are not a "Friend" or a "Family" member, then by golly, maybe I shouldn't use the "Friends and Family" option to send you money!

And, honestly, even if you're buying something from a friend or family member you should still really use G&S. It STILL helps protect both of you. F&F is really just for sending gifts of money.

 

[CataD]

The difference is semantical. A thief steals. A scammer uses a scheme to steal or defraud.

If I run into a convenience store and jack all the money in the cash register when it's opened, I would be a thief and not a scammer.
If I dressed as a money truck driver to fake a cash pick up and steal money from the safe/register by duping the employee, then I would be both a scammer and a thief.

.. yeah, semantics...

Scammer is just a sub sector of thief-I am not saying necessarily any better than any other thief, except the violent

pickpockets are not violent, they just steal the money from your pocket.. are they scammers or thieves?

 

[benchwarmer380]

.. yeah, semantics...



pickpockets are not violent, they just steal the money from your pocket.. are they scammers or thieves?

A thief.

If you have an accomplice putting on a street show and then you go around pickpocketing the spectators, scammer and a thief.

 

[Peter Hartwig]

Scammer is just a sub sector of thief-I am not saying necessarily any better than any other thief, except the violent

.. yeah, semantics...



pickpockets are not violent, they just steal the money from your pocket.. are they scammers or thieves?

Much of theft is an annoyance. You can always make more money. I separated out violent because it can take that which you can't replace-your life or others lives.

 

[CataD]

^^ OK guys, let's agree to disagree. I think the 'seller' is stealing money from PayPal -so, he's a thief, and also is pretending to be sending/receiving money from friends and family through PayPal - so, he's a scammer.

 

[Peter Hartwig]

^^ OK guys, let's agree to disagree. I think the 'seller' is stealing money from PayPal -so, he's a thief, and also is pretending to be sending/receiving money from friends and family through PayPal - so, he's a scammer.

He proposed to use F&F, but has he actually ever done it. Likely yes from his attitude, but this deal started as a G&S(I believe) and he asked for F&F, from this buyer, do to a trust issue. This deal never happened.
I am hesitant to call anyone a thief without positive proof.
But that doesn't mean I think the OP should do the deal, even without F&F

 

[Sonnydaze]

Walk away.

Put on your sneakers and RUN FAST.

 

[CataD]

He proposed to use F&F, but has he actually ever done it.

Take a look at post #38 and you'll find your answer.. Better yet, quote: "I have no problem paying f&f myself."

 

[Peter Hartwig]

Take a look at post #38 and you'll find your answer.. Better yet, quote: "I have no problem paying f&f myself."

I had remembered the post, but remembered the wording differently-that was what I was referencing as his attitude.

 

[Airborne 1]

What a friend does is send the knife and trust me to send the money . If there is no trust then there is no friendship. If its just a "buyer" and a "seller " with no trust, they are not Friends, so its a sale (G&S)...simple.

 

[r8shell]

What a friend does is send the knife and trust me to send the money . If there is no trust then there is no friendship. If its just a "buyer" and a "seller " with no trust, they are not Friends, so its a sale (G&S)...simple.

I don't think it works that way.
I can do business with friends, it's still a sale of good or services. I can give a gift to a stranger.
Paypal should change the wording from "friends & family" to "gift". Folks might find that less confusing.